Allen Wyatt, Mike Parker & FAIR: A Growing Fear of Dehlin?

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_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Allen Wyatt, Mike Parker & FAIR: A Growing Fear of Dehli

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

static wrote:
Yes, from a reliable source he was made aware of the existence of the hit piece.

[color=#008000]
In other words, he perpetuated misinformation. Unless a "hit piece" is produced, I withhold judgement on its existence. Knowing Greg, I choose to believe it doesn't exist at all.


You know Greg Smith personally? That is: are we talking about the same Greg Smith who wrote the very long "hit piece" on Rodney Meldrum, and who is believed to have authored that libelous bit about Bob McCue on the FAIR Wiki?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_RockSlider
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Re: Allen Wyatt, Mike Parker & FAIR: A Growing Fear of Dehli

Post by _RockSlider »

RayAgostini wrote:I really didn't expect this from you, and in my view it's uncharacteristic of the "face" you've provided in places like Mormon Stories. Maybe I don't really know you all that well. I'm still shaking my head and wondering if John Dehlin wrote the above.


John puts out a hand of friendship and invites Dan to do a Mormon Stories pod cast. In return a well known apologist writes up a nasty and MI, under DCP’s authorization is going to attack John with the full weight of MI behind it, and you wonder why John might have some hurt/strong feelings about this?

You expect John to turn the other check, and yet will continue to stand behind and defend DCP when he cast the first stone?

Honestly Ray, I do not get your loyalty to this man, and can so quickly/easily overlook all of the damage he has had a hand in.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Allen Wyatt, Mike Parker & FAIR: A Growing Fear of Dehli

Post by _Kevin Graham »

So, in other words, in your view John is lying about this. You would claim that Greg Smith did not write a long, biting critique of John Dehlin that was quashed by a General Authority. It is all made up, just a conspiracy theory.

You are a nut. John did not make this up. Ultimately the information has come from a reliable source. No one, including Daniel Peterson, has directly denied the existence of this piece.


I had a nice meeting with Brian Hauglid today, and though we mostly talked about the Book of Abraham, I did bring up this issue with John Dehlin just to get his thoughts. I didn't ask him if it were true. Instead, I said something like, "and what do you think about the FARMS hit piece on John Dehlin being pulled by an apostle"? His response wasn't "what are you talking about" or "I've never heard of such a thing." Instead it was clear from his response that he knew exactly what I was talking about. His eyes lit up as if to say "Ohhh yeah!" and his verbal response was something like, "that whole thing was unfortunate."

So I'm not buying any apologetic argument that says John is making this up. I have confirmation from no fewer than three scholars who would be in a position to know about this.

And yes, Dan doesn't publish articles he doesn't agree with 100%. He has told me this on the forums in the past. So there is really no way to divorce Dan Peterson's views from the vitriol that Maxwell tried to publish.
_RayAgostini

Re: Allen Wyatt, Mike Parker & FAIR: A Growing Fear of Dehli

Post by _RayAgostini »

RockSlider wrote:
John puts out a hand of friendship and invites Dan to do a Mormon Stories pod cast. In return a well known apologist writes up a nasty and MI, under DCP’s authorization is going to attack John with the full weight of MI behind it, and you wonder why John might have some hurt/strong feelings about this?

You expect John to turn the other check, and yet will continue to stand behind and defend DCP when he cast the first stone?

Honestly Ray, I do not get your loyalty to this man, and can so quickly/easily overlook all of the damage he has had a hand in.


I'm amazed at how fast and quick the criticisms have come from many here who haven't even read the alleged "hit piece". That's not what I call a "critical approach", from people who pride themselves as independent thinkers and "critics".

Your own assumptions are, to say the least, stunning.
_RockSlider
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Re: Allen Wyatt, Mike Parker & FAIR: A Growing Fear of Dehli

Post by _RockSlider »

RayAgostini wrote:I'm amazed at how fast and quick the criticisms have come from many here who haven't even read the alleged "hit piece". That's not what I call a "critical approach", from people who pride themselves as independent thinkers and "critics".
Your own assumptions are, to say the least, stunning.


Its not about the "hit piece" or what is in it ... its about a high level GA crying foul and calling off the dogs.

Either that happened or it did not happen. My bets on John. Heck your friends Ray, go ask him if John is lying.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Allen Wyatt, Mike Parker & FAIR: A Growing Fear of Dehli

Post by _Kevin Graham »

I'm amazed at how fast and quick the criticisms have come from many here who haven't even read the alleged "hit piece". That's not what I call a "critical approach", from people who pride themselves as independent thinkers and "critics".

Your own assumptions are, to say the least, stunning.


Why would we have to read it to know that an apostle pulled it from publication because it was too harsh?
_Hasa Diga Eebowai
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Re: -

Post by _Hasa Diga Eebowai »

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Last edited by Guest on Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_RayAgostini

Re: Allen Wyatt, Mike Parker & FAIR: A Growing Fear of Dehli

Post by _RayAgostini »

RockSlider wrote:
Its not about the "hit piece" or what is in it ... its about a high level GA crying foul and calling off the dogs.

Either that happened or it did not happen. My bets on John. Heck your friends Ray, go ask him if John is lying.


There are some things I wouldn't even take the word of my best friend on, not because I don't trust him/her, but because even people with the best of intentions can get things wrong, and their perceptions can be coloured. I'm not saying it's not a hit piece, nor that it is.

Do you know who this "high level GA is"?

John said he has not read it.

He also said he didn't know if this GA has read it, but doubts that he has.

One GA = All the GAs?

WOW! Is all I can say.
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Allen Wyatt, Mike Parker & FAIR: A Growing Fear of Dehli

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Kevin Graham wrote:
So, in other words, in your view John is lying about this. You would claim that Greg Smith did not write a long, biting critique of John Dehlin that was quashed by a General Authority. It is all made up, just a conspiracy theory.

You are a nut. John did not make this up. Ultimately the information has come from a reliable source. No one, including Daniel Peterson, has directly denied the existence of this piece.


I had a nice meeting with Brian Hauglid today, and though we mostly talked about the Book of Abraham, I did bring up this issue with John Dehlin just to get his thoughts. I didn't ask him if it were true. Instead, I said something like, "and what do you think about the FARMS hit piece on John Dehlin being pulled by an apostle"? His response wasn't "what are you talking about" or "I've never heard of such a thing." Instead it was clear from his response that he knew exactly what I was talking about. His eyes lit up as if to say "Ohhh yeah!" and his verbal response was something like, "that whole thing was unfortunate."

So I'm not buying any apologetic argument that says John is making this up. I have confirmation from no fewer than three scholars who would be in a position to know about this.

And yes, Dan doesn't publish articles he doesn't agree with 100%. He has told me this on the forums in the past. So there is really no way to divorce Dan Peterson's views from the vitriol that Maxwell tried to publish.


Again: you really have to stand in awe of the abject cowardice of this. Why not just engage Dehlin in conversation? Why hide and oversee a Greg Smith hit-piece like this, rather than writing it himself? It's remarkable.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_RockSlider
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Re: Allen Wyatt, Mike Parker & FAIR: A Growing Fear of Dehli

Post by _RockSlider »

RayAgostini wrote:Do you know who this "high level GA is"?

John said he has not read it.

He also said he didn't know if this GA has read it, but doubts that he has.

One GA = All the GAs?

WOW! Is all I can say.


Come on Ray, make this simple, go ask DCP if MI was censured from a GA from publishing an article about JD.

that's all we need to know ... right?
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