Saving reprehensible Hamblin, Peterson etc comments

[_Buffalo]

I think these discussions/disagreements would be a billion times shorter if all the biting sarcastic rhetoric was removed from the picture. The cheering gladiatorial crowds, however, wouldn't be nearly as entertained. But I get the feeling if the participants didn't want the crowds, they wouldn't constantly be going in for the verbal kill.

You may not think that it was defamatory to cull out insulting criticisms of me and send them to prestigious Mormon academics and to a senior leader of my Church, and you may not think that it was a kind of threat and blackmail to suggest that, if he didn't get a satisfactory response, he would happily gather up more such insulting criticisms and send them to a still-higher-ranking leader of my Church.

But his note was about and (copied) to me, and I did.

I'm happy for you that you can contemplate such treatment of somebody else with such equanimity.

And, as I said, the timing was poor. I hadn't yet even read the paper in question, I was on the road, my brother was dead, and I had just, a few minutes before I left, had a police officer in my home taking notes on threats of violence against me from a deranged ex-Mormon. I wasn't much in the mood for ultimatums from John Dehlin.

- responding to Jaybear, who said: "Thanks, but I more interested in seeing the email(s) where John threatened, blackmailed and defamed Professor Peterson."

[_Buffalo]

They have already commenced the process of erecting an infrastructure to the mythology that will then become, for them, the TRUTH; things as they really were in relation to the "Dehlin 'Hit Piece' Affair".

This is what they do.

It is what all good propagandists do.

What consistently amazes me is how quickly they achieve a high level of coordination in the endeavor. That must be a remnant effect of their days as faithful Mormons. Still, I'm always impressed by how, without any apparent planning, they all fall almost instantly into line and assume a single voice, telling a single story, with passion, devotion, and unquestioning conviction.

[_Buffalo]

I'm certainly not the one who's driven forty-plus pages on this topic on a single message board alone.

I've said virtually nothing publicly about the matter, as you can readily see. (I've provided the links on this very thread to absolutely everything I've posted regarding it, anywhere.)

[_Doctor Scratch]

You may not think that it was defamatory to cull out insulting criticisms of me and send them to prestigious Mormon academics and to a senior leader of my Church, and you may not think that it was a kind of threat and blackmail to suggest that, if he didn't get a satisfactory response, he would happily gather up more such insulting criticisms and send them to a still-higher-ranking leader of my Church.

But his note was about and (copied) to me, and I did.

I'm happy for you that you can contemplate such treatment of somebody else with such equanimity.

And, as I said, the timing was poor. I hadn't yet even read the paper in question, I was on the road, my brother was dead, and I had just, a few minutes before I left, had a police officer in my home taking notes on threats of violence against me from a deranged ex-Mormon. I wasn't much in the mood for ultimatums from John Dehlin.

- responding to Jaybear, who said: "Thanks, but I more interested in seeing the email(s) where John threatened, blackmailed and defamed Professor Peterson."

So is this DCP telling us that this is the only way that he will ever reconsider what he's been doing to other people for the past 30 years?

[_Kishkumen]

Brandt's was a good response but Kevin's was even better, I'd say.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/577 ... 1209121270

Yes, that was very well written. I think he was correct in pointing out the pitfalls of a blanket, negative characterization of Louis Midgley and Daniel Peterson. Both men have done many things for which they can rightly be most proud, and it does not help to overlook those contributions as we seek for better tools to help everyone as best we can.

[_Buffalo]

Remembering that we all want to tell the truth about our history, I note, for the record--as indicated by Dehlin's email I posted (that Dehlin did not)--Dehlin emailed a general authority and cc-ed Dan and others.

[_Buffalo]

Interesting:

I would like to relate my personal experience with regard to my personal faith crisis in order to shed some light on the concerns that many have with regard to the tactics employed by FAIR/FARMS?MI.

Several months ago, I was give a book, written by an scholar regarding the life of Joseph Smith. There were several things in that book that I had been told were untrue and simply a case of misinformation. The book in question was Rough Stone Rolling. Reading these things brought up many, many old wounds. Compund that with me going to my ecclesiastical leaders and begging for answers. They refered me to the scriptures and also to the apologist's writing on the many issues I was struggling over.

So I started the sojourn of wanting so desperately to believe and looking for ways to help me make sense of it all. Some of the first sources I encountered were written by Dan Peterson. Mind you, I am in at the begging of a major faith crisis and am looking for help. I am pleading with Heavenly Father to help me find the truth and to help me make sense of some of the troubling history that I had rediscovered and to put it to bed once and for all in my life. (I have not yet listened to one podcast, nor have I read any other source other than Bushman).

My sojourn takes me to Mr. Peterson's writings, and he was not the only one, but the tone and vitriol of what was being written by these supposed men of God, totally turned me from a believer desperately holding on to my now fragile testimony, to a person shattered. Where was the humilty and respect of the Savior? Where was the kind and nurturing messages I had hoped for? What I found was akin to my elementary days and middle school days of schoolyard name calling and pious denunciation of those to whom the authors so disagreed.

So I turned to other sources and found books written by current and former members who were contrite and humble in what they presented. I ahve carefully avoided the Tanners and others whose retoric is decidedly anti-Mormon. I can honestly say that I owe my personal apostacy to those "intellectuals" at Fair/Farms/ and the Maxwell Institute.

Mr. Peterson, when John Dehlin writes that you and your associates and turning people away from the church, he is telling you the truth. I am one example of thousands who went looking for help and assurance and ended up inactive and lost.

(And before you holier than thou, pious posters on here try to judge me, please understand, I was in a bishopric in Utah. I have been in an Elder's quorum presidency, and I have held many other leadership positions. I have six kids all under the age of 15. I was a 6th generation member with a very strong testimony. You would be wise to heed my words and to humble your tone and set as your mission a desire to bring souls unto Christ, rather than the opposite).

Thank-you for the opportunity to respond!

Rufus

[_Buffalo]

So is this DCP telling us that this is the only way that he will ever reconsider what he's been doing to other people for the past 30 years?

Apparently so. And when he's slapped by an apostle, he apparently takes out his anger against the apostle on others.

[_Buffalo]

"Defense?"

???

Defense of what?

If anyone has any cause to "show up in his own defense," it is Greg Smith!

This is now the second time in a year that we have seen this newly adopted approach of the apostate evangelists when they learn that an important piece of Mormon apologia is about to go to print: pull out all the stops, unloose the dogs of a full-fledged propaganda war, and do everything in their power to CENSOR the voice that they themselves cannot otherwise silence.

- responding to Senator, who said: "So JD didn't bring it here. He did show up in his own defense."

[_Doctor Scratch]

So is this DCP telling us that this is the only way that he will ever reconsider what he's been doing to other people for the past 30 years?

Apparently so. And when he's slapped by an apostle, he apparently takes out his anger against the apostle on others.

Well, JD indicated on another thread that he tried to directly email DCP and he was ignored, which seems about right. It seems like the only way to get these hard-headed Mopologists to listen is to get their colleagues and the General Authorities involved. In other words, it may be time for a more concerted petitioning of the General Authorities to put a stop to this.