Apostasy's A Bummer

[_Tobin]

...

Don't play ignorant. You can read the Book of Abraham as well as I can.

[_Themis]

...

Don't play ignorant. You can read the Book of Abraham as well as I can.

We still don't see you providing any evidence that Egyptians were sacrificing humans to their Gods. How can we dismiss this problem until you do?

[_Drifting]

So, in order to believe in the Book of Abraham you completely ignore what Joseph Smith explicitly said about it and what the Church prints in the front of every copy. How bizarre.

Not really. Joseph Smith had just published the Book of Mormon and then received the papyrus and was shown the origin story as I described. He just assumed incorrectly that the papyrus was the source and that they were written by Abraham (which was physically impossible). In fact, he published the Book of Mormon and had no idea where it took place either. Joseph Smith's understanding and knowledge was imperfect and even his understanding of the gospel was developing over time.

But the Church continually tells us the source was the papyrus by publishing Joseph Smiths words at the start of the published book and online. Why haven't they removed it do you think?

[_Tobin]

But the Church continually tells us the source was the papyrus by publishing Joseph Smiths words at the start of the published book and online. Why haven't they removed it do you think?

For the same reason it took them so long to reject polygamy and deal with the doctrine banning black men from the priesthood. Instead of critically and carefully thinking through things and agreeing with the truth when it is clearly visible, they claim they don't know. I wish they'd change a lot more quickly. How many problems would have been avoided if the Mormon Church leaders had embraced Martin Luther King when he was alive and picked up his message and marched along with him? If you want to pick a hot button with me, that is it when it comes to the leadership of the Mormon Church and their prophetic calling. They should apologize, put MLK's speeches and teachings in their lesson manuals, and dedicate a statue to him on temple square.

[_Drifting]

But the Church continually tells us the source was the papyrus by publishing Joseph Smiths words at the start of the published book and online. Why haven't they removed it do you think?

For the same reason it took them so long to reject polygamy and deal with the doctrine banning black men from the priesthood. Instead of critically and carefully thinking through things and agreeing with the truth when it is clearly visible, they claim they don't know. I wish they'd change a lot more quickly. How many problems would have been avoided if the Mormon Church leaders had embraced Martin Luther King when he was alive and picked up his message and marched along with him? If you want to pick a hot button with me, that is it when it comes to the leadership of the Mormon Church and their prophetic calling. They should apologize, put MLK's speeches and teachings in their lesson manuals, and dedicate a statue to him on temple square.

The problem with them changing on this one is that too much water has passed under the bridge. A correction rejects what Joseph Smith the Prophet stated, and if he was wrong in that then what else needs correcting? It's a can of worms they just won't open and so members are left with holding a belief that it came from the papyrus when clearly it didn't.

[_Themis]

Instead of critically and carefully thinking through things and agreeing with the truth when it is clearly visible

To bad you cannot do this. The Book of Abraham and Book of Mormon are clearly 19th century products.

by the way still waiting for you to provide evidence Egyptians were sacrificing humans to their Gods during Abraham's time. This should be simple seeing that they do have a fair bit of evidence of Egyptians for you to go through.

[_Shulem]

If you want to pick a hot button with me, that is it when it comes to the leadership of the Mormon Church and their prophetic calling. They should apologize, put MLK's speeches and teachings in their lesson manuals, and dedicate a statue to him on temple square.

And the church should get rid of the slander and lies in their scriptures:

Figure 6
Olimlah, a slave belonging to the prince.



Paul O

[Guest]

The problem with them changing on this one is that too much water has passed under the bridge. A correction rejects what Joseph Smith the Prophet stated, and if he was wrong in that then what else needs correcting? It's a can of worms they just won't open and so members are left with holding a belief that it came from the papyrus when clearly it didn't.

They would have to correct the KJV Isaiah errors in the Book of Mormon too. And all those wonderous statements made by prophets and apostles about the hill Cumorah in New York state and the wars that were fought there in ancient times were spoken under the influence of uninspired men as they stood in General Conference testifying.

Clearly, nothing the General Authorities say can be trusted. Look for anything and everything to be overturned. It's a matter of protecting the corporation and keeping the top leaders in power.

Paul O

[_Shulem]

To bad you cannot do this. The Book of Abraham and Book of Mormon are clearly 19th century products.

I was convinced through much study that the text of the Book of Abraham was indeed 19th century thinking and production. Joseph Smith tried hard to make it look ancient and dress it up as such but he totally failed as he did with the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3. The Book of Abraham story is just a story Joseph Smith made up and he borrowed most of it from other souces in his creative venture.

1. The text of the Book of Abraham is a fraud.
2. The Facsimile Explanations are also a fraud.

Paul O

[_Yoda]

To bad you cannot do this. The Book of Abraham and Book of Mormon are clearly 19th century products.

I was convinced through much study that the text of the Book of Abraham was indeed 19th century thinking and production. Joseph Smith tried hard to make it look ancient and dress it up as such but he totally failed as he did with the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3. The Book of Abraham story is just a story Joseph Smith made up and he borrowed most of it from other souces in his creative venture.

1. The text of the Book of Abraham is a fraud.
2. The Facsimile Explanations are also a fraud.

Paul O

Paul, I am really curious about your metamorphasis with this.

When I first met you, you were one of the most formidable apologists for the Book of Abraham.

Would you mind starting a thread detailing how you changed your thinking on this?