From My Informant: Was Bokovoy Blackballed at BYU?

[_Doctor Scratch]

I think the real question, as far as Dan is concerned … were MI resources used to scrap David’s internet activity and compile the report which the religion department then used in their inquiry of David?

My intel is that MI had absolutely nothing to do with this, and I have every reason to believe that this is 100% accurate. As far as I am concerned, the question of MI's involvement or potential involvement is not connected to reality.

David has the very best relationship with Bill Hamblin and Daniel Peterson to this day. They were very disappointed that their friend would not be joining them at BYU.

My most recent "intel" is entirely consistent with communications I had with Daniel Peterson in the past in which Daniel praised David genuinely and warmly. I simply cannot believe that MI was involved in this.

It is also my understanding that they did not know of what was happening, and thus could not have intervened in any way.

Isn't there crossover between the Religion Dept. and the MI? It's my understanding that there is. (Not that this means the DCP and Hamblin were involved, necessarily.) Looking over the facutly listing at the BYU Religion Dept. Web site, I see some familiar names. For example, Paul Y. Hoskisson holds a prominent position at the Maxwell Institute.

The thing is: David B.'s sensitivity to struggling members is akin to John Dehlin's, and given the fact that the Mopologists--including DCP and Hamblin--were gunning for him (i.e., Dehlin), it makes me wonder how sincere they really are/were in their support for Bokovoy. Another similarity between these two (e.g., Bokovoy & Dehlin) is that they were both being "tailed" or "stalked" online, with MI people putting together "dossiers" to use against them.

[_Doctor Scratch]

Thanks, by the way, to Kevin and Kishkumen for helping to validate this "intel." Part of the reason I post material like this is in the hopes that someone can either confirm or deny its validity.

[_Kevin Graham]

Yes, this is clearly the most disturbing question that's raised by all of this

It sends a message loud and clear to all future BYU prospects.

"We're watching you, so you better toe the party line or suffer the consequences."

And this is the antithesis to what academic freedom is supposed to be about.

Notice also that BYU has no "Religious Studies" dept. like other Universities. Instead, they have a Religious Education dept, because it is essentially religious indoctrination. Their hired professors do not have the intellectual freedom to expand on any subject beyond that which has been dictated by their corporate heads.

David would be better off elsewhere, rather than working under such intellectually suffocating circumstances.

[_Yoda]

David would be better off elsewhere, rather than working under such intellectually suffocating circumstances

I think that you're right. If what the Religious Education department at BYU is encouraging is simply classroom teaching, and no research, I think that David would become bored very quickly. It is obvious that David is as passionate about writing and research as he is about teaching. Just based on his personality, it doesn't seem like a good fit.

As Kish pointed out, I think the big loser in the end of all of this are David's potential students.

[_harmony]

He is a wonderful person, and this is a supreme loss for BYU, in my opinion.

Stupid BYU.

[_Kishkumen]

Isn't there crossover between the Religion Dept. and the MI? It's my understanding that there is. (Not that this means the DCP and Hamblin were involved, necessarily.) Looking over the facutly listing at the BYU Religion Dept. Web site, I see some familiar names. For example, Paul Y. Hoskisson holds a prominent position at the Maxwell Institute.

The thing is: David B.'s sensitivity to struggling members is akin to John Dehlin's, and given the fact that the Mopologists--including DCP and Hamblin--were gunning for him (i.e., Dehlin), it makes me wonder how sincere they really are/were in their support for Bokovoy. Another similarity between these two (e.g., Bokovoy & Dehlin) is that they were both being "tailed" or "stalked" online, with MI people putting together "dossiers" to use against them.

My bottom line here is that I believe that David was not hired partly because of whom he studied with and what his own ideas are. But, I also believe that one would be hard pressed without some real solid information to implicate a particular person at the NMI. I trust that the friendship of David with Bill and Daniel is genuine, and I have no reason to think that they would scuttle his hopes for employment. Hoskisson is an interesting possibility, especially when one considers Schryver's lunch(es?) with him. But again, this is mere speculation.

Personally, I don't want to make too much out of it. I think it does show, in the broad strokes, the existence of a pervasive distrust of people whose views wander too far from the most literal and absolute view of LDS claims. And, in this way it doubtless is consistent with the treatment of John Dehlin. But I am uninterested in constructing a hypothetical connection that contradicts solid evidence to the contrary.

[_Kevin Graham]

My bottom line here is that I believe that David was not hired partly because of whom he studied with and what his own ideas are. But, I also believe that one would be hard pressed without some real solid information to implicate a particular person at the NMI.

True. From what I understand it is the Dept of Ancient Scripture that had most of the authority here, and they interrogated Bokovoy about his orthodoxy using examples of things he had said on the forums. Since the head honcho of online mopologetics (Dan Peterson) just happens to be one of the head honchos at NAMI, I think the connection is assumed. But I don't know that Dan had any say, nor do I care. I don't think it really matters either since the point is that the Church owns BYU and NAMI, and the Church is responsible for sending orders down the line to make sure all prospective new hires abide by a strict code of conduct towards apostates. I also think Dan is brought into this mainly because he had in the past ridiculed accusations of BYU engaging in these kinds of background checks and such.

I trust that the friendship of David with Bill and Daniel is genuine, and I have no reason to think that they would scuttle his hopes for employment.

You're probably right.

Hoskisson is an interesting possibility, especially when one considers Schryver's lunch(es?) with him. But again, this is mere speculation.

Hoskisson was the guy who cut Schryver's publication. And no, he isn't the guy behind curtain pulling all the strings against Bokovoy.

Personally, I don't want to make too much out of it. I think it does show, in the broad strokes, the existence of a pervasive distrust of people whose views wander too far from the most literal and absolute view of LDS claims.

It is much worse than that. Bokovoy is marginalized not because he has wondered off from true orthodoxy, but because he refuses to mistreat the critics the way a good FARMS "scholar" is expected to do. It has become painfully clear to those online that over the past five years David Bokovoy has built friendships with people like me. People who are considered eternal enemies of the gospel. So it is less a matter of what you know. It is all about who you know and why you want to know them. David has a genuine love for people that is rare to find. No wonder BYU doesn't feel like he's an asset for their purposes.

And, in this way it doubtless is consistent with the treatment of John Dehlin. But I am uninterested in constructing a hypothetical connection that contradicts solid evidence to the contrary.

Expect a PM from me.

[_Doctor Scratch]

And, in this way it doubtless is consistent with the treatment of John Dehlin. But I am uninterested in constructing a hypothetical connection that contradicts solid evidence to the contrary.

Expect a PM from me.

Would you perhaps consider sending this to me as well?

[_Kishkumen]

True. From what I understand it is the Dept of Ancient Scripture that had most of the authority here, and they interrogated Bokovoy about his orthodoxy using examples of things he had said on the forums.

What an awful experience that must have been. I am deeply sorry he had to endure such a thing.

I also think Dan is brought into this mainly because he had in the past ridiculed accusations of BYU engaging in these kinds of background checks and such.

Well, obviously they do. Indeed, many employers are now using online material in considering prospective employees. But BYU in particular has a history of using dossiers against people in determining "continuing status" cases and the like. They're notorious for it.

You're probably right.

I hope so, for David's sake above all.

Hoskisson was the guy who cut Schryver's publication. And no, he isn't the guy behind curtain pulling all the strings against Bokovoy.

Cool.

It is much worse than that. Bokovoy is marginalized not because he has wondered off from true orthodoxy, but because he refuses to mistreat the critics the way a good FARMS "scholar" is expected to do. It has become painfully clear to those online that over the past five years David Bokovoy has built friendships with people like me. People who are considered eternal enemies of the gospel. So it is less a matter of what you know. It is all about who you know and why you want to know them. David has a genuine love for people that is rare to find. No wonder BYU doesn't feel like he's an asset for their purposes.

The politics of academic hiring decisions are complex business. I just participated in a hire this year in my department. I can tell you that it is pretty crazy business when looked at from a certain vantage point. The process is not exactly rational in all respects. My guess is that to a bunch of folks who don't do real scholarship and have degrees in Education and Computer Science, a bona fide Old Testament scholar with serious publications makes you look bad. Any question of orthodoxy just makes the rejection easier to pull off. But really it could have been just about anything. Academic hiring is the worst kind of crapshoot.

[_Joe Geisner]

The history of BYU and treating people this way is lined with lots of bodies. Gary Bergera and Ron Priddis do a great job in examining this history in the book "BYU: A House of Faith."

This kind of stuff happened right when BYU was trying to become a academic school in 1909 and hired four professors, two sets of brothers, their surnames being Peterson and Chamberlin. The spying and interrogations are all there. I recommend people take the time to look at this history.

http://signaturebookslibrary.org/?p=13903

When I hear this kind of thing, all I can think about is Mike Quinn, David Knowlton, David Wright, Cecilia Konchar Farr, Gail Turley Houston, Gene England, Steven Epperson, Brian Evenson and a host of others.