Shocked by Polygamy

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_ludwigm
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Re: Shocked by Polygamy

Post by _ludwigm »

SteelHead wrote:Teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith manual. Not mentioned.
Teachings of the Prophet Brigham Young manual. One mention.
Our Heritage manual. Not mentioned.
...



Teachings of Presidents of the Church:
Joseph F. Smith
Historical Summary (1998), viii–x
wrote:
This summary omits some important events in his personal life, including his marriages (plural marriage was being practiced in the Church at that time) and the births and deaths of his children, to whom he was devoted.
Plural marriage was being practiced in the Church at that time? Beautiful sentence, instead of "Joseph F. Smith had six wives and fathered forty-three children".

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- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_ludwigm
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Re: Shocked by Polygamy

Post by _ludwigm »

Drifting wrote:Mrs Drifiting ...
she did the equivalent of putting fingers in ears whilst singing la la la ...

Your wife and my wife are twins.

... or was taught the same way.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_Sophocles
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Re: Shocked by Polygamy

Post by _Sophocles »

jskains wrote:
Buffalo wrote:You must belong to one of those exceptional wards apologists are always talking about, where all 33 wives of Joseph Smith are memorized by primary children.

So you're saying you discussed in GD & priesthood that Joseph Smith married 14 year olds and other men's wives?


No, we don't promote your interpretation of the evidences.

JMS


Josh, perhaps you could elaborate on what aspects of polygamy were discussed in your Gospel Doctrine class? I'm guessing that they are not the same aspects that others are finding shocking, which would explain the apparent disconnect you describe in the OP.

As others have explained, people are not leaving the church because they were shocked to discover that there was any practice of polygamy at all in Mormon history. As you say, that is well known. I grew up in the church and I have known from a very early age that I am descended from the 10th wife of a prominent polygamist. Many Utah Mormons recall their polygamist ancestry with pride.

Yet I was shocked to learn the details of Joseph Smith's personal involvement in polygamous relationships. That was a significant factor in my parting ways with the church.

I am guessing from your comment above that you and your ward members do not yet acknowledge the details we are referring to, preferring instead to interpret the evidence differently, as you say. In that sense you have not yet learned what we have learned. That is why you are not shocked. When I believed what you believe, I was not shocked, either.

Once you learn what we have learned, you might also find yourself "shocked by polygamy."
_Tobin
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Re: Shocked by Polygamy

Post by _Tobin »

Sophocles wrote:Yet I was shocked to learn the details of Joseph Smith's personal involvement in polygamous relationships. That was a significant factor in my parting ways with the church.
????

What? Did you just suppose the BY invented it? I didn't leave the Church over polygamy. Who cares?!? Abraham was a polygamist. Muslims to this day are polygamists. It's not a new concept.

The reason I left the Church is I had no evidence of God. I suspect that is the reason virtually all ex-Mormons leave. After all, if you had actually spoken with God and God told you the Book of Mormon was true, why would you care what Joseph Smith did after that?!? It wouldn't matter if he went off, sat in a cave, and smoked peyote for the rest of his life.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_Buffalo
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Re: Shocked by Polygamy

Post by _Buffalo »

Tobin wrote:
Sophocles wrote:Yet I was shocked to learn the details of Joseph Smith's personal involvement in polygamous relationships. That was a significant factor in my parting ways with the church.
????

What? Did you just suppose the BY invented it? I didn't leave the Church over polygamy. Who cares?!? Abraham was a polygamist. Muslims to this day are polygamists. It's not a new concept.

The reason I left the Church is I had no evidence of God. I suspect that is the reason virtually all ex-Mormons leave. After all, if you had actually spoken with God and God told you the Book of Mormon was true, why would you care what Joseph Smith did after that?!? It wouldn't matter if he went off, sat in a cave, and smoked peyote for the rest of his life.


There is still such a thing as adultery among polygamists, and taking other men's wives is adultery. King David got into trouble over that.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Tobin
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Re: Shocked by Polygamy

Post by _Tobin »

Buffalo wrote:There is still such a thing as adultery among polygamists, and taking other men's wives is adultery. King David got into trouble over that.
So because King David engaged in adultery, that proves there isn't a God, and that Judaism and Christianity and the Bible are false?
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_Fence Sitter
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Re: Shocked by Polygamy

Post by _Fence Sitter »

Tobin wrote:
Buffalo wrote:There is still such a thing as adultery among polygamists, and taking other men's wives is adultery. King David got into trouble over that.
So because King David engaged in adultery, that proves there isn't a God, and that Judaism and Christianity and the Bible are false?


The devil is in the details.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_Tobin
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Re: Shocked by Polygamy

Post by _Tobin »

Fence Sitter wrote:The devil is in the details.
He usually is. People tend to strain at gnats and swallow camels.

Now, you won't find me advocating that people join Mormonism because they had a bout of heartburn. The only reason anyone should join Mormonism is if God shows up and tells you to. It is obvious the claims of Mormonism are too atypical to explain otherwise - magic Gold Books, angels, God, and things like that just don't happen every day. If these things don't happen to you, it's all a bunch of baloney.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_Themis
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Re: Shocked by Polygamy

Post by _Themis »

Tobin wrote:
Now, you won't find me advocating that people join Mormonism because they had a bout of heartburn. The only reason anyone should join Mormonism is if God shows up and tells you to. It is obvious the claims of Mormonism are too atypical to explain otherwise - magic Gold Books, angels, God, and things like that just don't happen every day. If these things don't happen to you, it's all a bunch of baloney.


If we did that no one would join the church.
42
_Fence Sitter
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Re: Shocked by Polygamy

Post by _Fence Sitter »

Tobin wrote:
Fence Sitter wrote:The devil is in the details.
He usually is. People tend to strain at gnats and swallow camels.

Now, you won't find me advocating that people join Mormonism because they had a bout of heartburn. The only reason anyone should join Mormonism is if God shows up and tells you to. It is obvious the claims of Mormonism are too atypical to explain otherwise - magic Gold Books, angels, God, and things like that just don't happen every day. If these things don't happen to you, it's all a bunch of baloney.


Many members, like me, didn't really "join" Mormonism, we were born into it. The OP is questioning the claims that there are members who leave the Church claiming that polygamy was an issue. He frames the question as if these disgruntled members were claiming no knowledge of LDS polygamy when it is much more likely that what bothered these members was how (those devilish details again) Joseph Smith practiced polygamy, not that he practiced it.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
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