Shocked by Polygamy

[_Tobin]

Many members, like me, didn't really "join" Mormonism, we were born into it. The OP is questioning the claims that there are members who leave the Church claiming that polygamy was an issue. He frames the question as if these disgruntled members were claiming no knowledge of LDS polygamy when it is much more likely that what bothered these members was how (those devilish details again) Joseph Smith practiced polygamy, not that he practiced it.

As was I, but at some point you realize that the claims are fanciful. Without some kind of evidence that God really exists and could make any of this possible, I see no reason to be Mormon. And I assert that is the real reason people leave. Polygamy is just an excuse. After all, who cares what someone else is or did or didn't do. What does that have to do with God appearing to you and telling you the truth? Which is the only basis in which to believe any of it.

[_son of Ishmael]

Many members, like me, didn't really "join" Mormonism, we were born into it. The OP is questioning the claims that there are members who leave the Church claiming that polygamy was an issue. He frames the question as if these disgruntled members were claiming no knowledge of LDS polygamy when it is much more likely that what bothered these members was how (those devilish details again) Joseph Smith practiced polygamy, not that he practiced it.

As was I, but at some point you realize that the claims are fanciful. Without some kind of evidence that God really exists and could make any of this possible, I see no reason to be Mormon. And I assert that is the real reason people leave. Polygamy is just an excuse. After all, who cares what someone else is or did or didn't do. What does that have to do with God appearing to you and telling you the truth? Which is the only basis in which to believe any of it.

Are you saying that God has actually appeared to you? I am new here so if you have gone over this before just point me to the post.


Having said that, in reply to your comment "After all, who cares what someone else is or did or didn't do" I do. Joseph Smith's conduct with married women and you girls do have a lot to do with his claims as a prophet. Please don’t give me the “fallacies of man” line. I am willing to forgive a lot but there are some things that go over the line and I don’t care who you are. Joseph issues with polygamy (not the fact that he was practicing it, but how he was practicing it) are just one of the many problems that caused me to leave the church after 30+ years. Of course I will admit that God has never actually appeared to me. If he were to do so now I might consider going back…maybe.

[_Tobin]

Having said that, in reply to your comment "After all, who cares what someone else is or did or didn't do" I do. Joseph Smith's conduct with married women and you girls do have a lot to do with his claims as a prophet. Please don’t give me the “fallacies of man” line. I am willing to forgive a lot but there are some things that go over the line and I don’t care who you are. Joseph issues with polygamy (not the fact that he was practicing it, but how he was practicing it) are just one of the many problems that caused me to leave the church after 30+ years. Of course I will admit that God has never actually appeared to me. If he were to do so now I might consider going back…maybe.

I have experienced God. I was an ex-mormon/atheist and would be still without that. And I think you have a severe misconception about what a prophet is. A prophet is ultimately a truth teller. If Joseph Smith told the truth that God appeared to him, then logically God should be able to appear to you and tell you that he did. Outside of that, I really don't care what Joseph Smith was or was not though I seriously doubt the claims he was immoral. He was a human being and what sins, if any, he committed is between him and God and it isn't my place to judge him.

[_Natsunekko]

Last year, when the Warren Jeffs trial was in the news, we were staying with my mother. Mom was baptized when she was 18, and has been a faithful (tithe-paying, temple-going, meeting-attending, 100% true believer) member for the last fifty years. During a news report on Warren Jeffs, Mom started talking about how truly evil the man was, and I foolishly commented that Joseph Smith was guilty of most of same things as Warren Jeffs. Mom got really mad, and insisted that Joseph did not have multiple wives. And, according to her, none of Brigham Young's wives were young, or coerced into marriage, or married while their husbands were on missions, either. She said she was taught that the reason Brigham Young started polygamy was because there were lots of widows who needed supporting after the pioneers crossed the plains. (I dropped the subject after that. Let Mom have her illusions, they make her happy).

So yes, there are people in the church today who are unaware of the role polygamy played in the early church. And, really, if I were in charge of lesson plans, I'd leave the polygamy stuff out too. It's one of the most shameful parts of the church's past. For me, it was the "straw the broke the camel's back" and caused me to completely lose faith in Joseph Smith as a prophet.

[_son of Ishmael]

Having said that, in reply to your comment "After all, who cares what someone else is or did or didn't do" I do. Joseph Smith's conduct with married women and you girls do have a lot to do with his claims as a prophet. Please don’t give me the “fallacies of man” line. I am willing to forgive a lot but there are some things that go over the line and I don’t care who you are. Joseph issues with polygamy (not the fact that he was practicing it, but how he was practicing it) are just one of the many problems that caused me to leave the church after 30+ years. Of course I will admit that God has never actually appeared to me. If he were to do so now I might consider going back…maybe.

I have experienced God. I was an ex-mormon/atheist and would be still without that. And I think you have a severe misconception about what a prophet is. A prophet is ultimately a truth teller. If Joseph Smith told the truth that God appeared to him, then logically God should be able to appear to you and tell you that he did. Outside of that, I really don't care what Joseph Smith was or was not though I seriously doubt the claims he was immoral. He was a human being and what sins, if any, he committed is between him and God and it isn't my place to judge him.

So you "expirenced God" is that the same as he apeared to you? I mean God in the flesh or whatever, right there in front of you?

[_Tobin]

So you "expirenced God" is that the same as he apeared to you? I mean God in the flesh or whatever, right there in front of you?

No, a being appeared to two of us in a locked apartment in a skyscraper and scared the crap out of us and told us to knock off what we were doing. Not an experience I ever wish to repeat. So, yeah - I do believe there is a God. Still trying to figure out what he's all about though and trying to reform my life to have another bite at the apple (with hopefully different results).

[_son of Ishmael]

So you "expirenced God" is that the same as he apeared to you? I mean God in the flesh or whatever, right there in front of you?

No, a being appeared to two of us in a locked apartment in a skyscraper and scared the crap out of us and told us to knock off what we were doing. Not an experience I ever wish to repeat. So, yeah - I do believe there is a God. Still trying to figure out what he's all about though and trying to reform my life to have another bite at the apple (with hopefully different results).

Wow you must have being doing some pretty bad stuff. How come he didn't appear to Jeffery Dahmer and tell him to knock it off. Were you doing stuff worse than he did? Or had you just eaten some mushrooms maybe?

[_Tobin]

Wow you must have being doing some pretty bad stuff. How come he didn't appear to Jeffery Dahmer and tell him to knock it off. Were you doing stuff worse than he did? Or had you just eaten some mushrooms maybe?

We were eating Dahmer (kidding). I don't know. I just know there is a God and since someone else was there, I also know I didn't imagine it.

[_just me]

Sounds like a bad trip...

[_Morley]

No, a being appeared to two of us in a locked apartment in a skyscraper and scared the crap out of us and told us to knock off what we were doing.

This is a description of a landlord responding to two dudes loving some Jimi Hendrix.