Decent Post on Proof and Evidence at Sic et Non

[_stemelbow]

You guys are relentless when you're wrong. Oh well...we're all wrong sometimes.

The comment about translating was not what the thrust of the testimony was about. They weren't testifying that Joseph Smith actually translated ancient words into English. Surely that was just part of their comments to identify Joseph Smith, and the book. The thrust of their witness was they saw the plates.

[_stemelbow]

I think stem believes that when he signs a document, he gets to choose which parts of the document he will be bound by.

This must extend to his mortgage, his car loan, his love letters to his spouse... you get the idea.

Yes, they are bound by their determination that the plates appeared ancient, and that they thought Joseph Smith was indeed a translator. They are not bound by testifying they know Joseph Smith was the translator, though. They don't witness any reason to think they knew he translated.

[_Chap]

I think stem believes that when he signs a document, he gets to choose which parts of the document he will be bound by.

This must extend to his mortgage, his car loan, his love letters to his spouse... you get the idea.

Yes, they are bound by their determination that the plates appeared ancient, and that they thought Joseph Smith was indeed a translator. They are not bound by testifying they know Joseph Smith was the translator, though. They don't witness any reason to think they knew he translated.

The document know as the 'testimony' of these witnesses contains the words:

" ...as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands".

That statement could only be consistent with the absence of a claim that Smith has translated at least some leaves if the number of leaves claimed to be have been handled was zero.

But that is clearly not the case. Therefore this part of the the testimony of the witnesses amounts to a claim that Joseph Smith has translated text from the non-zero number of plates that the witnesses have seen 'seen and hefted'.

[_stemelbow]

The document know as the 'testimony' of these witnesses contains the words:

" ...as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands".

That statement could only be consistent with the absence of a claim that Smith has translated at least some leaves if the number of leaves claimed to be have been handled was zero.

But that is clearly not the case. Therefore this part of the the testimony of the witnesses amounts to a claim that Joseph Smith has translated text from the non-zero number of plates that the witnesses have seen 'seen and hefted'.

Oh my goodness. This is silly.

[_Chap]

The document know as the 'testimony' of these witnesses contains the words:

" ...as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands".

That statement could only be consistent with the absence of a claim that Smith has translated at least some leaves if the number of leaves claimed to be have been handled was zero.

But that is clearly not the case. Therefore this part of the the testimony of the witnesses amounts to a claim that Joseph Smith has translated text from the non-zero number of plates that the witnesses have seen 'seen and hefted'.

Oh my goodness. This is silly.

QFT.

[_stemelbow]

QFT.

I was hoping you'd guys admit you're just being needlessly silly. Thanks for getting it started. HOpefully Kish wasn't tricked by you and thought it was all serious.

[_Chap]

The document know as the 'testimony' of these witnesses contains the words:

" ...as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands".

That statement could only be consistent with the absence of a claim that Smith has translated at least some leaves if the number of leaves claimed to be have been handled was zero.

But that is clearly not the case. Therefore this part of the the testimony of the witnesses amounts to a claim that Joseph Smith has translated text from the non-zero number of plates that the witnesses have seen 'seen and hefted'.

Oh my goodness. This is silly.

QFT.

I was hoping you'd guys admit you're just being needlessly silly. Thanks for getting it started. HOpefully Kish wasn't tricked by you and thought it was all serious.

It is clear from this last post that stemelbow is either as stupid as he claims to be, or a troll.

I favor the latter possibility.

[_stemelbow]

It is clear from this last post that stemelbow is either as stupid as he claims to be, or a troll.

I favor the latter possibility.

So you're attempt here succeeded? You really just wanted more opportunity to complain about stem? Any chance you get, huh, Chap?

my goodness. What a worthless little game you play.

[_Chap]

You really just wanted more opportunity to complain about stem? Any chance you get, huh, Chap?

This is a quite effective troll formula.

Adopt a deliberately stupid and folksy persona (remember to say 'ya' rather than 'you' as often as you can, and so on). Make a lot of posts, many of which are confused and rather pointless.

This will irritate other posters, and they will point out that you are not making much sense.

Then you get to complain that they are all out to get poor little old you.

[_stemelbow]

This is a quite effective troll formula.

Adopt a deliberately stupid and folksy persona (remember to say 'ya' rather than 'you' as often as you can, and so on). Make a lot of posts, many of which are confused and rather pointless.

This will irritate other posters, and they will point out that you are not making much sense.

Then you get to complain that they are all out to get poor little old you.

That's stupid. I posted in this thread complimenting Kish and DJ. In response DJ started teh attacks. When I commented ont he attacks, what came about was Chap popping in to put in his two cents of why he doesn't like ol' stem. Then when that was just far too apparent, Chap pretended some little game of reading things into the topic of discussion only to create opportunity to whimper more about stem. Now that's all exposed he tries to suggest I was the one who did what he did. What a wierdo that Chap guy. And for what? To complain about an LDS poster on a board where LDS posters are few and far between but the topic of discussion is supposed to be LDS stuff?