Decent Post on Proof and Evidence at Sic et Non

[_stemelbow]

I disagree. Stem may be "just a regular guy," but his pattern of engagement is the antithesis of thoughtful reading or useful commentary. It seems calculated to scuttle anything like an actual conversation with feigned stupidity and an avalanche of empty comments.

Still, I am glad you have connected with him on some level. I don't hate the guy; I'm just tired of stupid responses from a person who clearly could do better but chooses not to. I think that is evidence of an agenda.

I see potential here. I feel for the posters here and wish they would let go. I respond often with that in mind. When I see continual hypocrisy and thoughtless hostility directed at LDS folks, which is often the case here, or even at other people like Ray, I often comment in hopes posters will be awakened and move away from such senseless drivel. It only hurts them, I say. I don't want that for you or anyone.

In the end, I do wonder why you and others often derail threads to complain about me. I suppose as much as you think I am sent here from elsewhere to interfere with your guys' complaining, I wonder why there is such a ganging up, bullying mentality in response to posters like me. It seems to be this board's form of moderating--shut out and poison the well of those who present different views that are often not well-received here.

[_stemelbow]

I think there is some clarity though in your latest responses, Kish. At times you are pretty nice and helpful. Other times you are biting and angry. We're all a little driven by our moods I suppose. But when you get to the angry area, i find your posts thoughtless and mean-spirited. And I don't' mean that when you direct them at me, but at many people.

[_Sophocles]

I wonder why there is such a ganging up, bullying mentality in response to posters like me. It seems to be this board's form of moderating--shut out and poison the well of those who present different views that are often not well-received here.

Do you also wonder why people like Brant Gardner are treated so well?

[_Kishkumen]

Here the conclusion he reaches by saying the leader had a photo is untenable.

Here is the conclusion I draw from the 8 witness testimony:

They confirm that Joseph Smith' story of having metallic plates that appear ancient and have writings on them.

The comparison is not near close to what I've been saying, in my estimation. But to each his own.

No, stem, as people have demonstrated to you time and again in the face of your feigned obliviousness, the testimony of the eight was clearly placed in service of the claim that Joseph Smith translated these ancient plates to produce an account of an ancient Hebrew civilization in the Americas, as it was demonstrably intended to do. This the introduction of the Book of Mormon itself declares.

In this way it is perfectly parallel with the Heaven's Gate case. The only person who pretends not to get that is you.

It is obvious that yours is a studied obliviousness. You are a friendly fraud masked as a sincere interlocutor, and it is getting extremely wearing.

[_Kishkumen]

I think there is some clarity though in your latest responses, Kish. At times you are pretty nice and helpful. Other times you are biting and angry. We're all a little driven by our moods I suppose. But when you get to the angry area, i find your posts thoughtless and mean-spirited. And I don't' mean that when you direct them at me, but at many people.

Stem, my responses to your fraudulent participation here are observations. Anyone with half a brain can see that you are playing games. I don't have to ignore that, or refrain from drawing the attention of others to it.

[_Yoda]

It seems to be this board's form of moderating--shut out and poison the well of those who present different views that are often not well-received here.

I think it is unfair to say that ALL posters who are critics here do that. Admittedly, some do, but certainly not all. Kish, Blixa, and I, for instance, have carried on very good conversations where we have been on opposite sides of the spectrum. Scratch and I have as well. As long as a good argument is presented, they are more than willing to carry on a friendly conversation. Where Scratch and I have "come to blows" in the past has had to do with his little war against DCP. However, that is a separate issue from discussing topics. That is why I sometimes get frustrated with Scratch because he is actually quite enjoyable to discuss topics with, and yet the whole DCP thing tends to take up the majority of his posting time.

Stem, I would strongly suggest the use of the Ignore feature for this board. If I was not a Moderator, I would definitely be using it. It radically reduces the substance to noise ratio.

That way, you can actually carry on decent conversations with folks who interest you.

[_Kishkumen]

I feel for the posters here and wish they would let go.

Let go of what? Their capacity for critical thought?

[_stemelbow]

I think it is unfair to say that ALL posters who are critics here do that.

I didn't say all. But I would say the majority seem to go this route.

Admittedly, some do, but certainly not all. Kish, Blixa, and I, for instance, have carried on very good conversations where we have been on opposite sides of the spectrum.

I wouldn't say the bullying or whatever happens to everyone or by everyone. But, even those who can at times be very thoughtful, like Kish, can also be very hostile and demeaning in place of constructive critiques.

Scratch and I have as well. As long as a good argument is presented, they are more than willing to carry on a friendly conversation.

I have yet to see this very often. Its a rarity, if you ask me.

Where Scratch and I have "come to blows" in the past has had to do with his little war against DCP. However, that is a separate issue from discussing topics. That is why I sometimes get frustrated with Scratch because he is actually quite enjoyable to discuss topics with, and yet the whole DCP thing tends to take up the majority of his posting time.

I've never seen Scratch be reasonable with me. I see he can be at times, but I don't pay much attention to him anymore.

Stem, I would strongly suggest the use of the Ignore feature for this board. If I was not a Moderator, I would definitely be using it. It radically reduces the substance to noise ratio.

That way, you can actually carry on decent conversations with folks who interest you.

I don't do that to people.

[_stemelbow]

Let go of what? Their capacity for critical thought?

The resentment. It's pretty thick here.

[_Kishkumen]

But, even those who can at times be very thoughtful, like Kish, can also be very hostile and demeaning in place of constructive critiques.

I fully admit that I am not very sunny in the face of deception and the attacks of the strong upon the weak.