Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief

[_Tarski]

In a thread on the other board, the much beloved Kevin Graham said something along the line that he would really like to have faith. Assuming his stated desire is genuine, and given that he has evidently been banned from the other board, I have decided to come here to see if I can help him with his unbelief.

To be clear, I have no other interest here than that. For Kevin's sake, I am making this one exception to my self-banning at this board, and will only be responding to relevant posts to this thread.

At the outset I think it wise to first make sure whether Kevin would really like to have faith in God and the restored gospel of Christ, and whether he is willing and ready to have his mind and heart opened once again to spiritual growth. Are you?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Pretending that you care about Kevin in this way is obscene.
You only want to score some point in your quixotic battle to save Mormonism from the skeptical gaze.

[_EAllusion]

Aaaaaargh! This has been going on for at least seven years? Those posts have dates in 2005.

The mind recoils shuddering from such a prospect (or, rather, retrospect).

Wade's Center for the Study of Sexual Attraction Disorders, wherein he trolls gays by offering to "help" them through awful metaphors and Socratic questioning goes back to the year 2000. In my defense, I wasn't around for that.

And if you have question question about whether that is trolling, he advertized his center at alt.homosexuality - a discussion group for gays - by writing comments like this:

Hello,
Please visit the Center for the Study of Sexual Attraction Disorders
where you can become involved in the new discussion on such disorders
as homosexuality, pedaphilia, beastiality, necrophilia, etc. The web
address is:

http://www.aros.net/~wenglund/sad.htm

Let me know what you think (either here or there).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

or lecturing others on civic dialogue with comments like this:

Productive civic dialogue is, in part, a function
of simply and accurately framing the issues. And,
the simple and accurate framing of issues is, in
part, a function of exacting and descriptive
terminology.

With these axioms in mind, may I suggest
abandoning the use of the relatively non-descript
terms like "gay" and "lesbian", and use instead
the more exacting and descriptive term "SAD",
which stands for Sexual Attraction Disorder.
Try it out and see if it doesn't help better
frame the issues and make civic dialogue more
productive.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-

or perhaps following up with a complaint about that with:

I certainly understand your reaction to what I said. It is not uncommon
for people, such as yourself, to use laughter as a means of protecting
your fragile state of deep denial. I don't doubt the laughter was loud
and long. Such is required to drown out the clear and obvious fact of
the disorder.

And, using errant termonolgy such as "orientation" is likewise a
mechanism for protecting one's state of deep denial--not to mention it
being a tool of obfuscation and propaganda. It would be like calling
attention deficit disorder "thought orientation."

Unfortunately, neither civic dialogue, nor those who are afflicted with
this disorder, are well served by such stratagies. It is in everyone's
best interest to use exacting and descriptive terminology, and
acknowledge the existence of the disorder, so that it can be correctly
and productively addressed.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

You can wayback some of the material:

http://web.archive.org/web/200402240621 ... nd/sad.htm

[_Sandra]

[quote="EAllusion"/]


Do you know Wade at all? This is the opening salvo in his faux-help as a way of condescending his beliefs schtick.[/quote]

I do agree - but the difference between Wade and a troll (under my definition of the word 'troll', at any rate), is that the troll has to have the self-awareness to know that what he is really doing is not what he is purporting to do, and Wade does not have any degree of insight of that kind. He has deep communication difficulties, for which I do not blame him.[/quote]



LOL how wonderfully magnanimous of you...

[Guest]

-

[_Chap]

Do you know Wade at all? This is the opening salvo in his faux-help as a way of condescending his beliefs schtick.

I do agree - but the difference between Wade and a troll (under my definition of the word 'troll', at any rate), is that the troll has to have the self-awareness to know that what he is really doing is not what he is purporting to do, and Wade does not have any degree of insight of that kind. He has deep communication difficulties, for which I do not blame him.

LOL how wonderfully magnanimous of you...

Yes, it was a gesture of quixotic generosity, wasn't it?

But after having reviewed some of Wade's posts over the past decade (see the links above) I have concluded that he is after all a self-aware troll, though still with deep communication difficulties.

I hope that pleases you.

[_why me]

I do think that Kevin would like to believe. But then again I do believe that most of the exmormons on this forum would like to believe. In fact, one part of their angst is not being able to believe. They act out this angst on exmormon boards.

It is difficult to have felt the spirit and then have that spirit seemingly disappoint. Kevin is no different from the rest. How can kevin be helped? Only kevin can help himself. Hopefully he and others will find peace.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Well, I asked for help and Mr. Wade rejected me. Thanks a lot, Wade!

- VRDRC

[_TrashcanMan79]

Interesting that Wade chose not to post this in the Celestial forum.

[_wenglund]

I'm thinking of you, Wade. That is why I am trying to help you to avoid wasting your time and making a fool of yourself on this board. I am being much more patient about that than most people would expect me to be.

Can you manage the humility required to appreciate my efforts?

Yes.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

Oh. so your offer to help others was insincere?

My offer was sincere. We will see if you were sincere in your request for help depending upon whether you comply with my first two instructions.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-