Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief

[_Shulem]

Bump

Wade - quick question. Does your method for restoring faith involve convincing people to stop asking certain questions?

Why do Mormons call Anubis a slave? What does President Monson (prophet, seer, revelator, and translator) have to say about this authoratative claim contained in Mormon canon?

Surely, Kevin Graham isn't being asked to have faith in this rediculous truth claim from the Book of Abraham, is he?

Paul O

[_Buffalo]

Why do Mormons call Anubis a slave? What does President Monson (prophet, seer, revelator, and translator) have to say about this authoratative claim contained in Mormon canon?

Surely, Kevin Graham isn't being asked to have faith in this rediculous truth claim from the Book of Abraham, is he?

Paul O

Apparently you can't ask these sorts of questions and retain faith.

[_Droopy]

Do you know Wade at all? This is the opening salvo in his faux-help as a way of condescending his beliefs schtick.

Sorry, I am not going to take your ironic bait. I am not here to argue or debate or exchange insults with you or anyone else. I meant what I said about only wishing to help Kevin, or anyone else for that matter, with their unbelief.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Welcome back to high school. It hasn't changed a bit since you've been away. The chance of receiving even the slightest serious response to the OP is, as one would guess, zero.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Welcome back to high school. It hasn't changed a bit since you've been away. The chance of receiving even the slightest serious response to the OP is, as one would guess, zero.

Welp. I tried.

Also, would you mind answering Paul's question?

- VRDRC

[_Droopy]

Feel free to PM him. If you ever decide you desire a reason-based worldview, remember that I'm here to help you.

If one ever decides they desire a reasoned and rational, yet sophistry-free worldview grounded in an integrated balance of revelation, faith, reason, logic, and critical thought, but without making reason itself one's religion (with all the severe limitations and distortions of perception that implies), there will always be faithful members of the restored gospel to help you, and help you avoid the alternative (and poor substitute for the real article) religion of people like EDelusion.

[_Droopy]

Welp. I tried.

Also, would you mind answering Paul's question?

I have no intention of answering any of Paul's questions.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

If one ever decides they desire a reasoned and rational, yet sophistry-free worldview grounded in an integrated balance of revelation, faith, reason, logic, and critical thought, but without making reason itself one's religion (with all the severe limitations and distortions of perception that implies), there will always be faithful members of the restored gospel to help you, and help you avoid the alternative (and poor substitute for the real article) religion of people like EDelusion.

Didn't you just contradict yourself?

- VRDRC

[_Buffalo]

Welp. I tried.

Also, would you mind answering Paul's question?

I have no intention of answering any of Paul's questions.

The chance of receiving even the slightest substantive response from Droopy is, as one would guess, zero.

[_Droopy]

He wants to be able to reconcile belief in the Church with his higher and more important commitments to science, rationality, and non-contradiction

Leaving aside the yawning abyss of problems this kind of statement excavates and brings to the surface, I've seen very little evidence, over the years, that Kevin has any real commitment to any of the above intellectual ideals. He uses them, or rather, deploys them, for polemical purposes, across a narrow bandwidth of issues to which he has a deep emotional and psychological commitment, but I've seen no evidence that he values logic, rationality, critical thought, or "science" above or even equal to most of the apologists he regularly abuses.

The very idea that he thinks that a committed, faithful LDS, and especially one who defends the church upon intellectual grounds, must be, by the very fact of that commitment and faith, irrational, illogical, uneducated, stupid, and intellectually dishonest, is a clear indication that Kevin neither understands nor actually appreciates these qualities.

If he cannot or will not see them in others for whom similar intellectual ideals are matters of core principle, then I have severe doubts that he really understands what these qualities are and would actually recognize them in himself even if he possessed them to any substantial degree.

[_Droopy]

1) faith in God and 2)the restored gospel of Christ, and whether he is willing and ready to have his mind and heart opened once again to 3) spiritual growth.

You realize, of course, that these are not mutually inclusive, right?

As an apostate from and as one in open (at least here, in anonymity) rebellion with respect to that very gospel and church, for you, they would not need to cohere at all, would they?