Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief

[_harmony]

And yet I have no desire to leave the church because I believe this is where the institution and the people are headed, if slowly.

Change is difficult for an institution that confuses divinity and humanity.

[_Yoda]

I could say with some truth that I didn't leave the LDS Church; the LDS Church left me.

But I think it is more accurate to say that I have transcended the constricted, constrained and correlated version of currently received Mormon Doctrine.

In so doing, I have connected more fully with the Mormonism restored by Joseph Smith, and have aligned myself with the Adam of his temple endowment who is forever seeking "further light and knowledge."

There is no barrier so strong against receiving further light and knowledge as thinking one already has the answers.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

This. Exactly.

And yet I have no desire to leave the church because I believe this is where the institution and the people are headed, if slowly.

eta: I actually see disillusion with that naïve faith rooted largely in ignorance as a significant part of the process of spiritual maturation. Consig, you might enjoy Peter Rollins. He has a new book coming out in which he's trying to explain his approach to Christianity which is, in a nutshell, that the heart of the Christian experience is losing faith and learning to live in the uncertainty (a la "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me.") He speaks, blogs, and has written about his Christology but his presentations thus far have been disjointed rather than systematic.

These views, to me, are what is at the heart of New Order Mormonism...at least the New Order Mormonism I consider myself associated with.

[_sock puppet]

...you might enjoy Peter Rollins. He has a new book coming out in which he's trying to explain his approach to Christianity which is, in a nutshell, that the heart of the Christian experience is losing faith and learning to live in the uncertainty (a la "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me.") He speaks, blogs, and has written about his Christology but his presentations thus far have been disjointed rather than systematic.

Sounds to me like he's saying the heart of the Christian experience is after knowing better, you nevertheless stick your head in the sand and keep it there. I think this is a disingenuous path to suggest anyone follow. If my young daughter persisted into, say, her 13th year yet believing that the easter bunny is real, I'd disabuse her of that notion. (Actually, I would not have allowed it to go that long, just using age 12 as an outside, if not extreme, parameter.) There is a time when those fantasies of immaturity are okay, perhaps even productive. But with maturity comes the need to shuck off those fantasies and deal with reality. For my perspective, clinging to one's once-held myths after they've been intellectually busted is pathetic, and stunts further growth.

[_consiglieri]

These views, to me, are what is at the heart of New Order Mormonism...at least the New Order Mormonism I consider myself associated with.

You are my sister from another mister.

M&G, too!

[_mercyngrace]

Sounds to me like he's saying the heart of the Christian experience is after knowing better, you nevertheless stick your head in the sand and keep it there. I think this is a disingenuous path to suggest anyone follow. If my young daughter persisted into, say, her 13th year yet believing that the easter bunny is real, I'd disabuse her of that notion. (Actually, I would not have allowed it to go that long, just using age 12 as an outside, if not extreme, parameter.) There is a time when those fantasies of immaturity are okay, perhaps even productive. But with maturity comes the need to shuck off those fantasies and deal with reality. For my perspective, clinging to one's once-held myths after they've been intellectually busted is pathetic, and stunts further growth.

This isn't at all what he's suggesting. Once his new book comes out and he has provided a concise explanation that doesn't rely on my poor restating, you might find it more palatable. His emphasis is on how we live rather than what we believe.

If I recall correctly, he attempts to lay out his ideas about unbelief (though he's something of a rambler) in this lecture which he's titled "Salvation for Zombies".

http://peterrollins.net/?p=3513

[_wenglund]

My path is not your path.

Thanks, -Consiglieri-

All the best to you.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

Kevin?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Darth J]

Kevin?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Gee, Wade. Kevin hasn't responded to your thread so far. What conclusions do you draw from that?

[_MsJack]

Gee, Wade. Kevin hasn't responded to your thread so far. What conclusions do you draw from that?

"I spent the last few years building up an immunity to troll powder." - Kevin Graham, The Mopologist Bride

[_Nightlion]

I am sure this was well intended. However, it is clear that it is made by some more expert in how to lose faith rather than how to retain and grow in faith. And, since Kevin's stated desire is to gain faith, I hope you will forgive me if I rely instead on the wisdom and advise of the experts on how to succeeded in faith.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade? Hello. Um, what exactly are your credentials and who are these experts on how to succeed in faith.
HOLY LOL
The fact that you think that there actually are experts of faith in a day and age of NO ZION is just plain stupid. I guess you already sought professional help with that and probably got a degree. Hmm, BYU?

How could I resist this great tease? Paul for hell sake please put on a shirt already. Damn, you are like that kid at Los Hermanos in Provo yesterday mincing about in stuttered step as the host(ess). Give it a rest.

Whether or not I ever return will reside squarely on Wade's willingness to face his hypocrisy in the burning and effulgent rays of REAL SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE. [you all know that's me and only me, see, listen up pal, hear what I sayin', yeah, I'm Mr Big, me, I tell ya, and everybody else here in Key Largo. Gimmie!]