Peterson and Schryver: Slavery Was a Blessing to Blacks

[_Doctor Scratch]

Yes, it is racism, which is nothing short of hypocritical given Dan's love for bigot-baiting. He does precisely the same kinds of things he likes to accuse his enemies. Except it applies more to him than them.

A picture has certainly emerged over the years. There is his advice to interracial Mormon couples--i.e., telling them that they will "face challenges," and basically warning them about what will happen to them if the go ahead with the marriage. Then there were his really quite problematic blog postings about that black woman politician in Utah. Can you say "tokenism"? And now there is this sort of sideways defense of slavery.

This just isn't very good stuff, I'm afraid.

[_lulu]

There was nothing utopian about traditional Aboriginal society, which was characterised by tribal warfare, violent punishments, sexism, superstition, and famine. The Aboriginals were essentially a stone age society, failing during a period of 50,000 years to develop any form of writing, agriculture or wheeled transport.

White settlement brought to Australia all the advantages of one of the greatest civilisations in history: democracy, law, philosophy, art, literature, science, technology, agriculture and music. All these factors have been developed over 200 years to produce a nation which is the envy of the world....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB5Nbp_g ... ure=relmfu

[_moksha]

Upon seeing the title of this thread I thought "this can't be right." It isn't. Neither DCP nor Schryver promote or condone racism or slavery, as the thread title suggests.

Of course they don't endorse it. They were simply charmed with the count your many blessings approach to what slavery has done.

[_RayAgostini]

This is Droopy-quality stuff. Citing racist "scholarship" doesn't really help your case, Ray. And I wouldn't deny that economic motives played a big part in the Atlantic slave trade. So did social and cultural attitudes. After all, you aren't likely to make slaves out of people whom you regard as equals.

"Racist scholarship"? Instead of labeling, why not point out where anything I've quoted is "racist"?

Further reading:

Australia and the Holocaust: A Koori Perspective.

Some might be offended by an Aboriginal activist (Gary Foley) comparing Aboriginal genocide to Jewish genocide, but the larger question looms: Did any good come out of the British colonisation of Australia?

[_LDSToronto]

Slavery leads to blessings. Not a surprising belief. I've sat through many Sunday School lessons where we learned how Joseph made lemons into lemonade; why, Joseph, even a poor slave, rises above his situation and becomes the second most powerful man in all of Egypt!

And then we learn about the captive Israelites, enslaved by the Egyptians, set free by Moses, rising to be a great people, even a modern nation!

Don't blame those who succumb to the stupid belief that slavery leads to great things; blame the institution that pounds this belief into the minds of it's acolytes and adherents.

H.

[_huckelberry]

whatever is in my pocket that can or might be attributed to slavery is bad. See the difference?

Frankly your statement provides me no information about how you value or treat economic gain so, no I do not see the difference. It is not an easy question. I pointed it out to example the value of ongoing thought not expecting some sudden resolution. . So far your response sounds like you like to keep your hands washed.

[Guest]

whatever is in my pocket that can or might be attributed to slavery is bad. See the difference?

Frankly your statement provides me no information about how you value or treat economic gain so, no I do not see the difference. It is not an easy question. I pointed it out to example the value of ongoing thought not expecting some sudden resolution. . So far your response sounds like you like to keep your hands washed.

Look buddy, I've washed my hands of nothing. I live and work in what would in common parlance be called a ghetto in a major American city. It's in one of the very poorest congressional districts and zip codes in the country. I can look out my window right now and see at least 4 people begging for money, 2 of them I know to be psychotic. A few blocks away is another neighborhood that is one of the most violent zip codes in the country.

And frankly, I've spent more than a little time studying issues of race, class, gender and sexual orientation.

I spend the mental and physical energy of almost every day helping people, almost every last one of them a person of color, the best I can against big business and uncaring bureaucrats for very little money in return. I see another white person when I take a 20 minute train ride to a completely different part of town.

I'm not complaining, I like what I do although tonight I'm exhausted and I have to get up extra early tomorrow for some special things for work.

Yes it is an easy question. To the extent that my life is better off because I'm white rather than the descendent of African American slaves is a bad thing. I don't see how that can be unclear unless you are being willfully obtuse.

Enjoy your suburban life. But if you'd like, you can join me for a couple of weeks. I have extra space. On Sat. we can go down to the corner and hear the Black Israelites preach.

Are you ready to tell me about the silver lining behind gay teen suicide now under the pretense of dealing with our homophobic legacy?

[_Doctor Scratch]

"Racist scholarship"? Instead of labeling, why not point out where anything I've quoted is "racist"?

I quoted it.

Further reading:

Australia and the Holocaust: A Koori Perspective.

Some might be offended by an Aboriginal activist (Gary Foley) comparing Aboriginal genocide to Jewish genocide, but the larger question looms: Did any good come out of the British colonisation of Australia?

For some people, yes. For others, definitely not. And that's the point--that's the conclusion that a balanced perspective would reach. The stuff DCP and Schryver are saying is offensive precisely because it tries to downplay the damage that was inflicted on the people who were harmed. Plus, this is just a hot-button topic, and these guys ought to know better.

[_RayAgostini]

The stuff DCP and Schryver are saying is offensive precisely because it tries to downplay the damage that was inflicted on the people who were harmed. Plus, this is just a hot-button topic, and these guys ought to know better.

Is this "downplaying":

I don't deny for a moment that the enforced servitude of blacks in the United States was a horrific injustice even at its best, an inexcusable offense against God, humanity, and the fundamental principles of the American founding. Those who advocated it and advanced it will have to account for their actions at Judgment Day, if, indeed, they haven't already done so.

Does this excuse slave ship captains or slave traders? Not even slightly. It does mean, though, that good can be manufactured from evil, that bad intentions can sometimes inadvertently lead to positive results.

Thomas Sowell:

John Hawkins: Do you believe reparations should be paid for slavery?

Thomas Sowell: The people made worse off by slavery were those who were enslaved. Their descendants would have been worse off today if born in Africa instead of America. Put differently, the terrible fate of their ancestors benefitted them. If those who were enslaved were alive, they would deserve huge reparations and their captors would deserve worse punishments than our laws allow. But death has put both beyond our reach. Frustrating as that may be, creating new injustices among the living will not change that. (Emphasis added)

Since this came from RightWingNews, I guess it's horribly racist and biased.

[_lulu]

The stuff DCP and Schryver are saying is offensive precisely because it tries to downplay the damage that was inflicted on the people who were harmed. Plus, this is just a hot-button topic, and these guys ought to know better.

Is this "downplaying":

I don't deny for a moment that the enforced servitude of blacks in the United States was a horrific injustice even at its best, an inexcusable offense against God, humanity, and the fundamental principles of the American founding. Those who advocated it and advanced it will have to account for their actions at Judgment Day, if, indeed, they haven't already done so.

Does this excuse slave ship captains or slave traders? Not even slightly. It does mean, though, that good can be manufactured from evil, that bad intentions can sometimes inadvertently lead to positive results.

No, that's where they try and cover their asses while they stupidly count the blessing of slavery.