Peterson and Schryver: Slavery Was a Blessing to Blacks

[_Doctor Scratch]

It looks like you don't have a real reply, Ray. Instead you're stuck having to defend racist comments. Good luck with that.

[_Bond James Bond]

Next up...the good that came out of the Holocaust was that it finally spurred Western powers to carve out a little country for Jews.

[_Kishkumen]

Next up...the good that came out of the Holocaust was that it finally spurred Western powers to carve out a little country for Jews.

My thoughts exactly.

[_Morley]

If I were to try to put this in LDS theological terms, I would say that some experiences, including horrific ones, ought to remain sacred to the people who endured them. Anything I could say would be the equivalent of blasphemy. I do not chat with Native Americans about the genocide my ancestors visited upon their people. I don't shoot the breeze about the shackles of slavery my ancestors placed on African men, women, and children. I don't pontificate about the rational argument for some upside to the Holocaust. I have nothing to say on the matter. I join with the victims and their descendants in fighting, to the best of my ability, to make sure it never happens again, and that such horrors, where they continue to exist, stop.

Worth reading again. And again.

[Guest]

My informant tells me that DCP is hard at work on a rapsodic, lyrical epic blog post in double rhymed iambic pentameter about the glories that flow from the Native American genocide. Ray is providing research and editorial support.

Without it, Navajos would never have become subsitence sheep farmers and made their beautiful rugs, they're such loving, simple, artistic people. (An additional informant tells me that Dan has picked up several for cheap. He's thinking of moving into knock off kachina dolls too, he thinks he can keep a better mark-up for himself with them to supplement his tour guide stipends).

Navajos would have remained as wild as their brother Apaches. Nor had the chance to accept the Lord's one true gospel and be saved from their degenerate and heretical form of the Jewish faith.

Good always triumphs over evil. That's what our dear, sweet Savior's atonement teaches us. Let's go commit some evil in the name of more good. Why, we could name a foundation after it, the More Good Foundation. Has a nice ring, no?

Isn't it wonderful, isn't marvelous.

Could I have another donut please?

[_stemelbow]

Here's another gem of a thread created here. Any effort by most of the posters here to say they don't hate LDS folks like Will or DCP are fooling themselves--they'll read anything into their words in some weird hope they come off as terrible people.

The fact is, there was slavery. The fact is, slavery, at least in America, is no more. It's not a bad thing that people can feel joy and peace for where they are at. It's a good thing. We can't exactly change history so we might as well accept it, learn from it, and exult in any and all who find themselves in good situations to this day. Sadly, as we can clearly see, so many here are plagued with such hate they can't do much but complain about the manufactured indiscretions of LDS folks, feigning some righteous indignation for dramatic effect and nothing more. How sad. I hope more for you all.

[_Chap]

Here's another gem of a thread created here. Any effort by most of the posters here to say they don't hate LDS folks like Will or DCP are fooling themselves--they'll read anything into their words in some weird hope they come off as terrible people.

The fact is, there was slavery. The fact is, slavery, at least in America, is no more. It's not a bad thing that people can feel joy and peace for where they are at. It's a good thing. We can't exactly change history so we might as well accept it, learn from it, and exult in any and all who find themselves in good situations to this day. Sadly, as we can clearly see, so many here are plagued with such hate they can't do much but complain about the manufactured indiscretions of LDS folks, feigning some righteous indignation for dramatic effect and nothing more. How sad. I hope more for you all.

Leave it to the experts, please:

I would like to come to the defense of Dr. Daniel Petersen. He is a fine young man. It is the official position of the church that slavery was bad. This we know to be true, for the Lord revealed it to us last week. Tears of joy flowed when we heard this marvelous news. Finally we know what to think about slavery. However, we may now know that slavery was bad, but what the young Dr. Petersen is trying to say is that some good came out of slavery. Just a few weeks ago I spent some time with colleagues watching our local basketball team play in the NBA playoffs. Without slavery, there would be no NBA today. We would not have the joy of watching tall negroes play with a ball. These negroes are paid millions of dollars to entertain us. They would not make that kind of money in Africa, unless they hired child sodiers to dig up blood diamonds. So you see, slavery was bad, really, really bad. But some negroes were blessed by it because today they are Americans instead of Africans. That's all we are trying to say.

The thinking has already been done.

[_Kishkumen]

Here's another gem of a thread created here. Any effort by most of the posters here to say they don't hate LDS folks like Will or DCP are fooling themselves--they'll read anything into their words in some weird hope they come off as terrible people.

I find that I am on a different end of very many issues from Peterson and Schryver. I am pretty unapologetic about that. So what? These guys have public blogs, and I have a different opinion. If they didn't want to be engaged by others with different opinions, they wouldn't enter the realm of public blogging.

I will be very open about the fact that I have a very deep antipathy toward their politics and their approach to issues regarding the LDS Church and its so-called "critics." On the other hand, I have had cordial interactions with both people.

Why am I forbidden, in your view, from expressing my antipathy toward their views, stem? Go ahead and fulminate about alleged "hatred," but in my case I think you would have an awfully difficult time arguing it persuasively. Not that you and other apologists don't try persistently to do so.

[_Kevin Graham]

What makes you or Scratch think it's "racist" to state the truth? That both African-Americans and Aborigines are generally much better off today in spite of the evils of the past? You can't see this?

You haven't established it as "truth" all you've done is assert it. Yes, it sucks to live in Africa today. But it also sucks to live in America while black. Sure, there is more opportunity here, but as Chris said, it could very well be the case that slavery had a lot to do with the way Africa's soceities deteriorated the way they did.

America wasn't the only country affected by slavery. Go study the whole history of the West Indies, from European colonisation to slavery to emancipation (1834 in Trinidad), to eventual government by African descendants of slaves. Ask them if they think they're better off in their self-governed "islands of paradise" (not without their own problems), than they would have been if they'd remained in Africa.

Again, you're ignoring the point. Your argument assumes that Africa would have been like had slavery never existed. It is an argument that begs the question. You really need to inform yourself better on pre-slavery Africa before swallowing the nonsense from Peterson/Sowell. African societies flourished for thousands of years even up until the slave trades occurred.

http://www.understandingslavery.com/ind ... Itemid=151

http://www.awesomestories.com/flicks/am ... an-slavers

http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/ism/slavery/africa/

[_lulu]

Here's another gem of a thread created here. Any effort by most of the posters here to say they don't hate LDS folks like Will or DCP are fooling themselves--they'll read anything into their words in some weird hope they come off as terrible people

Let's break this down:

1. good often comes out of evil

What is the evil DCP is discussing? Slavery. So good came out of slavery

2. Atonement of Christ, who FREELY took on the sins of the world and died compared with INVOLUNTARY enslavement

3. But we must repent.

So disadvantage African-Americans have not repented so that they can obtain good from slavery?

4. but some good, nonetheless

Returns to first theme slavery producing good.

nuttin'
Please respond point by point.