The cost of leaving

[_Darth J]

Whoa unto us! We are so persecuted for being Mormons!

Mormons more likely to be defendants in employment discrimination cases than plaintiffs

Umm......

Whoa unto us! We are so persecuted for being Mormons!

[_quaker]

Of all the divorces I've seen most occur because one of the partners changes in some way. They change their looks, their ideals, their goals or maybe their priorities. This affects the relationship and the couple might break up. Sometimes the changes are mostly conscious decisions and sometimes they are a result of aging coupled with conscious decisions. Sometimes they are changes that simply occur with the passing of time, maturity and age.

Whatever the case, most relationships that end up sour happen because one, or both, of the partners have changed in a significant way. The two cannot, or do not wish to, accommodate the changes so they separate.

I believe this process is quite common outside the LDS bubble as well? Somebody correct me if my experience and observations are incorrect.

[_Yahoo Bot]

So you imply that a religious ceremony constitutes an acknowledgement that the partners are obliged to remain members of the relevant church. Can you back that up by finding the words of a religious ceremony used by a major denomination in the US that makes continuation of the marriage conditional on the partners both maintaining their religious allegiance?

I didn't imply that. You just don't read what I write. I have said that it is wrong for a devout wife to leave a faith-failing husband over matters of declining faith, and so this was my constant refrain as a bishop. And, more, that is the training I received as a bishop from the handbook of that day, if one can credit the very limited training I received. Certainly, the LDS religious ceremony (which was published in its entirety in the eastern press by one of the apostles) doesn't say what you think I imply.

Rather, it is a very common phenomenon among devout religious couples that deviation from one partner from the joint faith of the original marriage ceremony may and will likely lead to a lot or problems in the marriage.

There are really too many sociological studies which report on this issue. I have personally observed it in many faiths; sometimes the devout wife finds solace in the arms of another "devout" man not her husband as she spends time in Bible study and her husband doesn't.

But some of us never imagined that possibility.

Ignorance on this issue is not the church's fault.

Those who live in the bubble of the Church or, more significantly, the Wasatch Front, tend to blame the Church and its members for rather expected and common human behavior. People shun, threaten divorce, do divorce and do all sorts of bad things when one spouse becomes different than what the other spouse expected at marriage.

[_Chap]

So you imply that a religious ceremony constitutes an acknowledgement that the partners are obliged to remain members of the relevant church. Can you back that up by finding the words of a religious ceremony used by a major denomination in the US that makes continuation of the marriage conditional on the partners both maintaining their religious allegiance?

I didn't imply that. You just don't read what I write.

Oh. But I did:

I guess what I'm saying is that when you decided to marry a devout wife in a religious ceremony, which I assume is your case, you were basically acknowledging that there would be hell to pay in this life if you deviated from that norm and your wife didn't.

I am happy for the jury to decide if my interpretation of those words is more likely than yours.

[_zeezrom]

...and by encouraging you to seek out and really see and speak with God instead.

Who said he doesn't do that still? Oh yeah, only Mormons can do that.

[_Yahoo Bot]

Oh. But I did:

What is wrong with you? I keep saying that normal human behavior, in and out of the church, is going to lead to that expectation. You're basically acknowledging to your devout wife when you choose to get married in your joint church that you're going to stick with the faith.

Look, marriage is viewed by so many as a trick and an artifice to get men to commit. Commit to fidelity in body, mind and in the case of religious ceremonies, religious faith.

I think it a reasonable and common expectation. So don't act all that surprised and shocked when your spouse threatens to divorce you over it. As a bishop, I was screamed and yelled at by wives who couldn't believe their ears when I told them that they'd be in the wrong to divorce their religiously faithless husband. So don't mischaracterize what I believe or what I am saying.

[_zeezrom]

It's true that the price (personal cost) to leave the church is often considered higher than the price (in U.S. dollars) to stay.

[_Chap]

You're basically acknowledging to your devout wife when you choose to get married in your joint church that you're going to stick with the faith.

You keep asserting that ... if anyone thinks that you have shown it to be the case, good luck to them.

Of course I agree that many spouses consider it grounds for divorce if their spouse makes any significant change of life-style. Change of religion might be part of such a change. But what you asserted when you said this was much more specific:

I guess what I'm saying is that when you decided to marry a devout wife in a religious ceremony, which I assume is your case, you were basically acknowledging that there would be hell to pay in this life if you deviated from that norm and your wife didn't.

[_Tchild]

For those who leave the church it is a difficult journey.
My wife has left me, saying that'll she only come back on the condition that I change. My family relationships are damaged. My job only safe because I keep quiet.
The only way to free myself of the church completely seems to be to move and abandon everyone and everything I know.
To any Mormons out there I'd like to issue you a challenge. Try leaving the church. Then see if you can say that it isn't a cult.

Sounds awful.

I don't now what disturbs me more, the teachings of Mormonism or the conditionality of your wife.

If she would leave you over your beliefs (electrical impulses floating about in your head with no reality), then **** her.

[_Stormy Waters]

I keep saying that normal human behavior, in and out of the church

And yet you've ignored where I demonstrated that Mormons leaders have villianized those who leave.
Is it any surprise that members have the same attitude?