The cost of leaving

[_Albion]

Apparently there is no room for personal conscience from other Mormons when a person is led to leave the confines of Mormonism but it is a "work and a wonder" when conscience is exercised by someone wishing to enter those same confines. Since, as I believe, most Mormons cannot even begin to grasp that a person could possibly leave the "one true church" for genuine reasons of conscience or intellect rather than some Satanic motivation or because some offended them, I find the ultimatum of the wife unconscionable. My respect is for the person who is true to their own integrity rather than the person who succumbs to blackmail. Presumably, the wife in this case would prefer her husband live a lie rather than be true to himself. Stormy Waters, you deserve better.

[_Yoda]

'm very familiar with them, and aside from Islam (where deviating from the faith could mean death in some cases), Mormonism is rather unique among the Abrahamic faiths.

Kevin....I don't know how familiar you are with Judaism, but my understanding is that Jews also shun those who abandon their faith.

I have always seen some interesting similarities between Mormonism and Judaism in regards to how both religions so strongly incorporate religious doctrines and culture, in general.

[_Buffalo]

'm very familiar with them, and aside from Islam (where deviating from the faith could mean death in some cases), Mormonism is rather unique among the Abrahamic faiths.

Kevin....I don't know how familiar you are with Judaism, but my understanding is that Jews also shun those who abandon their faith.

I have always seen some interesting similarities between Mormonism and Judaism in regards to how both religions so strongly incorporate religious doctrines and culture, in general.

The opposite is true - you can't escape being considered fully-Jewish even if you're an atheist.

Unless you're talking about some smaller, conservative Jewish sect.

[_Chap]

The opposite is true - you can't escape being considered fully-Jewish even if you're an atheist.

Unless you're talking about some smaller, conservative Jewish sect.

Beat me to it. My experience is that the test applied by most Jews to decide the question "Is X Jewish?" basically amounts to "Would Hitler have wanted to kill X as part of the Final Solution?". For the vast majority of Jews, religious belief and practice is a secondary matter.

[_Tobin]

...and by encouraging you to seek out and really see and speak with God instead.

Who said he doesn't do that still? Oh yeah, only Mormons can do that.

I didn't say that, so don't presume I did.

[_BartBurk]

For those who leave the church it is a difficult journey.
My wife has left me, saying that'll she only come back on the condition that I change. My family relationships are damaged. My job only safe because I keep quiet.
The only way to free myself of the church completely seems to be to move and abandon everyone and everything I know.
To any Mormons out there I'd like to issue you a challenge. Try leaving the church. Then see if you can say that it isn't a cult.

So is your wife requiring you to just attend church or does she want you to qualify for a temple recommend? If all she is doing is wanting you go to church with her you might want to consider it. I became Catholic, but still attend the LDS Church with my family even though the LDS Church forced me to resign when they found out I had become Catholic. I don't mind attending -- I find the LDS generally to be congenial people even when they have found out that I've become Catholic. They still shake my hand at church, and I enjoy being with them. As long as they know I still appreciate their beliefs even though I've changed they seem to accept me. And I like attending the LDS Church with my family even if I don't take the sacrament.

[_Yoda]

You're basically acknowledging to your devout wife when you choose to get married in your joint church that you're going to stick with the faith.

You keep asserting that ... if anyone thinks that you have shown it to be the case, good luck to them.

Of course I agree that many spouses consider it grounds for divorce if their spouse makes any significant change of life-style. Change of religion might be part of such a change. But what you asserted when you said this was much more specific:

I guess what I'm saying is that when you decided to marry a devout wife in a religious ceremony, which I assume is your case, you were basically acknowledging that there would be hell to pay in this life if you deviated from that norm and your wife didn't.

Actually, as much as it pains me to agree with Yahoo Bot, he does have a point in this case.

You examined the protestant wedding ceremony. Now, let's examine the LDS vows:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 326AAzF9pf

The husband and wife are covenanting to keep all law, rites, and ordinances pertaining to matrimony in the the New and Everlasting Covenant. I can see how a husband or wife would view remaining active in the LDS Church as part of those rites and ordinances.

I am not saying that it is right to divorce a spouse over this. And, as Bot pointed out, the Bishop's handbook instructs bishops to encourage couples to stay together, even in the case of one spouse leaving the Church.

I will ask you the same question I asked Kevin. Are you aware of how those who practice Judaism react in these circumstances? I would think it would be a similar situation.

[_Chap]

You're basically acknowledging to your devout wife when you choose to get married in your joint church that you're going to stick with the faith.

You keep asserting that ... if anyone thinks that you have shown it to be the case, good luck to them.

Of course I agree that many spouses consider it grounds for divorce if their spouse makes any significant change of life-style. Change of religion might be part of such a change. But what you asserted when you said this was much more specific:

I guess what I'm saying is that when you decided to marry a devout wife in a religious ceremony, which I assume is your case, you were basically acknowledging that there would be hell to pay in this life if you deviated from that norm and your wife didn't.

Actually, as much as it pains me to agree with Yahoo Bot, he does have a point in this case.

You examined the protestant wedding ceremony. Now, let's examine the LDS vows:


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 326AAzF9pf
The husband and wife are covenanting to keep all law, rites, and ordinances pertaining to matrimony in the the New and Everlasting Covenant. I can see how a husband or wife would view remaining active in the LDS Church as part of those rites and ordinances.

I am not saying that it is right to divorce a spouse over this. And, as Bot pointed out, the Bishop's handbook instructs bishops to encourage couples to stay together, even in the case of one spouse leaving the Church.

I will ask you the same question I asked Kevin. Are you aware of how those who practice Judaism react in these circumstances? I would think it would be a similar situation.

Firstly, haven't you just posted Temple content in Terrestrial? And you are a MOD???? How wicked can you get?

Secondly, Yahoo Bot was trying to suggest that Mormonism was not out on a limb in having many instances of a Mormon spouse seeking divorce when a spouse gives up Mormonism. You make my case: commitment to the religion is explicitly in the Mormon ceremony as part of the marriage deal, but is not in the marriage ceremonies of other major US denominations.

Jews are about as numerous in the US as Mormons. It happens that I am well aware, for personal reasons, of the attitude of Jews to such matters as religious practice and its relation to marriage. No Jews I know feel that a marriage is effectively voided if a spouse ceases to have religious belief in Judaism. And I don't think you will be able to document that as a practice or doctrine amongst a major Jewish group. Judaism in any case lays much more emphasis on orthopraxy (doing right) than on orthodoxy (believing right).

[_Yoda]

The opposite is true - you can't escape being considered fully-Jewish even if you're an atheist.

Unless you're talking about some smaller, conservative Jewish sect.

Beat me to it. My experience is that the test applied by most Jews to decide the question "Is X Jewish?" basically amounts to "Would Hitler have wanted to kill X as part of the Final Solution?". For the vast majority of Jews, religious belief and practice is a secondary matter.

Ah, OK. So it seems like lineage Trump's religion.

[_Yoda]

Firstly, haven't you just posted Temple content in Terrestrial? And you are a MOD???? How wicked can you get?

Oh, good grief. I was trying to carry on an intelligent conversation about the differences in marriage vows, not disparage anything.

I will delete the actual content if it offends.