Chap wrote:Jews are about as numerous in the US as Mormons. It happens that I am well aware, for personal reasons, of the attitude of Jews to such matters as religious practice and its relation to marriage. No Jews I know feel that a marriage is effectively voided if a spouse ceases to have religious belief in Judaism. And I don't think you will be able to document that as a practice or doctrine amongst a major Jewish group. Judaism in any case lays much more emphasis on orthopraxy (doing right) than on orthodoxy (believing right).
Isn't there a rather strong cultural pressure for Jew to marry other Jews? Or is this not really the case, either?
Chap wrote:Firstly, haven't you just posted Temple content in Terrestrial? And you are a MOD???? How wicked can you get?
Oh, good grief. I was trying to carry on an intelligent conversation about the differences in marriage vows, not disparage anything.
I will delete the actual content if it offends.
It was a kind of a joke. Personally, I find the Temple Content restriction mildly bizarre (and indeed a limitation on intelligent conversation), and I was just savoring the irony. Don't delete anything for my sake.
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Chap wrote:Jews are about as numerous in the US as Mormons. It happens that I am well aware, for personal reasons, of the attitude of Jews to such matters as religious practice and its relation to marriage. No Jews I know feel that a marriage is effectively voided if a spouse ceases to have religious belief in Judaism. And I don't think you will be able to document that as a practice or doctrine amongst a major Jewish group. Judaism in any case lays much more emphasis on orthopraxy (doing right) than on orthodoxy (believing right).
Isn't there a rather strong cultural pressure for Jew to marry other Jews? Or is this not really the case, either?
Depends on the Jews. Two Jews, three opinions. But in any case, in this thread we are not talking about starting marriages, but ending them.
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
I would like to ask Stormy Waters a question. Stormy, was the main reason your wife left because you left the Church, or were there other factors that were just as pressing?
I am trying to figure out exactly how much the Church has played a role in this.
For example, if you called her up tomorrow and said, "I am going back to Church," would she take you back?
Tobin wrote:..and by encouraging you to seek out and really see and speak with God instead.
Zee wrote:Who said he doesn't do that still? Oh yeah, only Mormons can do that.
Tobin wrote:I didn't say that, so don't presume I did.
I intended to point out how your comment appears to make the assumption that the OP author is no longer (or never has) properly communicated with God.
This is how you sounded in my little ears: "I know how to commune with God. You should try it."
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)
Tobin wrote:..and by encouraging you to seek out and really see and speak with God instead.
Zee wrote:Who said he doesn't do that still? Oh yeah, only Mormons can do that.
Tobin wrote:I didn't say that, so don't presume I did.
I intended to point out how your comment appears to make the assumption that the OP author is no longer (or never has) properly communicated with God.
This is how you sounded in my little ears: "I know how to commune with God. You should try it."
I apologize if it came across that way then. It was not my intention to imply that. It was my only my intention to have him speak with the Lord and not do the traditional Mormon heartburn thing which just irritates me.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote: I apologize if it came across that way then. It was not my intention to imply that. It was my only my intention to have him speak with the Lord and not do the traditional Mormon heartburn thing which just irritates me.
Does this irritate you too?
Luke 24:32
They said to each other, “Did not our hearts burn within us while he talked to us on the road, while he opened to us the Scriptures?”
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Reading all of this really makes me greatful that my wife was willing to listen and do her own research. I am really sorry that things have turned out for you like I did.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude
Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits
Yahoo Bot wrote:I keep saying that normal human behavior, in and out of the church
And yet you've ignored where I demonstrated that Mormons leaders have villianized those who leave. Is it any surprise that members have the same attitude?
Here is the kicker for me: When the spouse of a dissaffected member hears the, "What about your celestial marriage?" argument from a family member and/or an ecclesiastical leader, the whole love thing goes out the door. Now they have their children to think about because without a celestial bond, those kids are not going to the upper division of the upper division.
Ya'll are arguing with Yahoo Bot who is very concentrated on defending TSCC at any costs. He is willing to ignore the obvious to paint a pretty picture that it isn't just the church, it is everywhere.
Tobin wrote:I apologize if it came across that way then. It was not my intention to imply that. It was my only my intention to have him speak with the Lord and not do the traditional Mormon heartburn thing which just irritates me.
you don't need to apologize. I'm having a little trouble with a philosophy that I interpret from your words. You don't like the way he is doing things (traditional Mormon way) and wish he would communicate with God more instead.
1. How is communicating more with God going to make his situation different? This is a sincere question, as I'm wondering the very same thing.
2. What exactly is "The Traditional Mormon Way" you refer to?
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)
I was trying to carry on an intelligent conversation about the differences in marriage vows, not disparage anything.