What?????s wrong with Mormon Apologetics? My reply to Seth Payne

[_Samantabhadra]

Chap you are entirely too kind!

And I see what you mean about the replies being a case in point. The distinction I would make is that I really don't think it's intentional on their part. DCP and Gee (and company) know full well that they are holding 2-7 off suit. They obfuscate because they have no other choice. By contrast I think their defenders here transmit with such a low signal to noise ratio because they really don't know any better and, as we've seen, it's easier to get caught up in tiny subsidiary details than address the main point in question.

Kish, I'll be on the lookout for Swick's book. I loved The Refiner's Fire but the relationship between Freemasonry (in particular) and Mormonism remains poorly studied.

[_RayAgostini]

Sure sign of the apocolypse. Stak, Kish, brade, Ray and Stem all on the same page. Come sweet Jesus, we're ready for you.

If Ray and I agree on one more thing, we have to start kissing each other on both cheeks when we meet.

Greetings, comrade. Actually, I've suffered from serious "cog. diss" since 1985. Everything after that was an attempt to reconcile on "spiritual grounds", or looking for the things I had in common with the Church. So it was a mixture of Richard Poll and Joseph Campbell. Since 1987, I've never again been a "literal believer", and ultimately it didn't work (as far as staying in the Church). The "problem" is that I've made my peace with Mormonism, and the "issues" don't loom nearly as large as they once did. Mormonism is no "threat" to me, in any way, either externally or by me falling back into some kind of "TBM mode".

So to those of you who've "only" been out ten years or so, don't judge me (or others) who've been out much longer and wrung out the "issues" a million times forever and a day, until you've been out the same length of time. The only reason I've maintained an interest, joined the debates, argued for both sides, and occasionally read up on "Mormon issues" is because of the connectedness of the Internet. And I've made many "cyber friends" in the process, though in the end I do still consider myself basically as a "loner". I have no oaths, loyalties or allegiances to pander to, and I'd just as soon go to a General Conference as I would to an exmo gathering. I have a fondness for "Mormon culture", and I like its "Christ-centredness", where it applies. So I still have "spiritual connections" too, and I consider them important in my "broader picture", which basically is Universalism. We are all made of the "same stuff", but divided by our life experiences.

[_Kishkumen]

Kish, I'll be on the lookout for Swick's book. I loved The Refiner's Fire but the relationship between Freemasonry (in particular) and Mormonism remains poorly studied.

Another illuminating book for background on Mormon history, which does not directly deal with the topic, and is all the more interesting for that fact, is Alan Taylor's Liberty Men and Great Proprietors. It has chapters on treasure digging and "white indians" in Maine. Both chapters are very useful.

[_Chap]

We are all made of the "same stuff", but divided by our life experiences.

I have been lucky enough to have so far had no personal experiences that call that belief in question, so I tend to act on it.

But there do appear to be some monsters out there that might suggest that a few of the entities walking the earth in human form may be a wee bit differently constructed. I hope that is not true, but I fear I am too optimistic.

[_stemelbow]

My original post to you was precisely on this point, and your history here playing that game.

The old blame it on everyone else. Take some responsibility.

I guess I am the easy target to you guys. You go out for shooting practice and it's easy when there's a Mormon around. I didn't say anything worth your mockery, I'd say. But mocking is the name of the game here. So whatever. Just pointing out I didn't instigate anything. It was you, Kish, Chap etc.

Thanks.

[_Themis]

I guess I am the easy target to you guys.

That's your fault. You agreed with Brade's point which I thought was interesting in that Brade was describing what you have been known for.

You go out for shooting practice and it's easy when there's a Mormon around.

There's lots of Mormons around here including me.

I didn't say anything worth your mockery, I'd say.

Well it's good I didn't mock you.

Just pointing out I didn't instigate anything. It was you, Kish, Chap etc.

Yes blame everyone else instead of taking some responsibility for derailing. I did as well after my post to you.

[_stemelbow]

Alright, Themis, I'll just let it go. I disagree with you. My advice to you is to do the same. See ya.

[_Themis]

all right, Themis, I'll just let it go. I disagree with you. My advice to you is to do the same. See ya.

I don't take things personally, and I only brought up how you meet Brade's description. It was on topic, but I did get off topic when you took it as an attack which is unfortunately common for you. I hope things go well for you.

[_stemelbow]

I don't take things personally, and I only brought up how you meet Brade's description. It was on topic, but I did get off topic when you took it as an attack which is unfortunately common for you.

I hope things go well for you.

And I hope things go well for you too.

[_LDSToronto]

I guess I am the easy target to you guys.

Tacked up on that cross just so makes for easy shooting.

H.