Non Mormon, Christian POV on pre-existence

[_Dantana]

LDS theory explains away the paradox of how humans acquire unique individual identities/personalities....with the concept that they grow them in the pre-life.
I'm curious as to the theory of non LDS theologians.....Christians on the subject. When does god create the soul? At or around the birth of the physical? How does he do it? Does the person acquire it's core personality traits through a - roll of the dice-?

If god has nothing to do with the personality a person is dealt, who does? The person? How? If the person has nothing to do with the cards they are dealt, how can they be held accountable....for being the owner of a sociopath mind?

If god is creating the soul determinedly, why create faulty souls? Entertainment?

[_Yoda]

LDS theory explains away the paradox of how humans acquire unique individual identities/personalities....with the concept that they grow them in the pre-life.
I'm curious as to the theory of non LDS theologians.....Christians on the subject. When does god create the soul? At or around the birth of the physical? How does he do it? Does the person acquire it's core personality traits through a - roll of the dice-?

If god has nothing to do with the personality a person is dealt, who does? The person? How? If the person has nothing to do with the cards they are dealt, how can they be held accountable....for being the owner of a sociopath mind?

If god is creating the soul determinedly, why create faulty souls? Entertainment?

I believe that the traditional Christian POV is that God created the human race. Their souls are simply a part of them, just like their bodies are. All men are fallible, and in need of being "born again", or accepting of Christ in order to be saved, or to live with God in the hereafter. There is not a pre-existance, in the way that LDS believe in it.

[_Yoda]

ETA--I am kind of feeling my way through this, based on conversations I have had with friends who are traditional Christians, so those of you who are EV, Catholic, etc., please feel free to correct me. I am learning quite a bit from these discussions, and I find it fascinating.

[_Dantana]

LDS theory explains away the paradox of how humans acquire unique individual identities/personalities....with the concept that they grow them in the pre-life.
I'm curious as to the theory of non LDS theologians.....Christians on the subject. When does god create the soul? At or around the birth of the physical? How does he do it? Does the person acquire it's core personality traits through a - roll of the dice-?

If god has nothing to do with the personality a person is dealt, who does? The person? How? If the person has nothing to do with the cards they are dealt, how can they be held accountable....for being the owner of a sociopath mind?

If god is creating the soul determinedly, why create faulty souls? Entertainment?

I believe that the traditional Christian POV is that God created the human race. Their souls are simply a part of them, just like their bodies are. All men are fallible, and in need of being "born again", or accepting of Christ in order to be saved, or to live with God in the hereafter. There is not a pre-existance, in the way that LDS believe in it.

Yes, but if the soul can disengage from the body at death and stand alone, how is it defined? How did it acquire its personality....that god says must be rated and sorted? A roll of the dice?


For the record, I am not a materialist/naturalist, (not that there's anything wrong with that) and don't want to be mistaken for one because I speak contrary to deity based religion. For argument sake, I guess some form of Buddhism would best describe my philosophies. Which branch of Buddhism.....Good question. I guess the one that most believes what I do.

[_Ceeboo]

Hello Liz

I believe that the traditional Christian POV is that God created the human race.

Yes, in addition to everything else that has a beginning (created), God created Human beings.

Their souls are simply a part of them, just like their bodies are.

Indeed! (And it is my belief that the human soul is created at the moment of conception by the Creator)

All men are fallible, and in need of being "born again", or accepting of Christ in order to be saved, or to live with God in the hereafter.

Although I would certainly agree with you that there are some (many?) Christians who would suggest this, I would not. I believe God is God and as a mere creation myself, I remain dead silent on the entire matter (Pun intended).

There is not a pre-existance, in the way that LDS believe in it.

Yes, this would mirror my personal belief.

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Dantana]

Hello Liz
Indeed! (And it is my belief that the human soul is created at the moment of conception by the Creator)
Peace,
Ceeboo

Ceeboo, if god is purposefully creating souls, at the physical birth, with diverse personalities, why not just create them all perfect and equal? If he's creating them blank slate.....then what is there to define it? What did he create if it has no properties.... uniqueness? Simple awareness? How can simple awareness have a personality?

[_madeleine]

How are souls not created equally?

[Guest]

LDS theory explains away the paradox of how humans acquire unique individual identities/personalities....with the concept that they grow them in the pre-life.
I'm curious as to the theory of non LDS theologians.....Christians on the subject. When does god create the soul? At or around the birth of the physical? How does he do it? Does the person acquire it's core personality traits through a - roll of the dice-?

Christian belief (all Christians as far as I know) believe God creates as a whole person, body and soul, together. There is no such thing for us as a body without a soul. As has already been stated, Catholic belief is that the soul is created at conception (not birth).

If god has nothing to do with the personality a person is dealt, who does? The person? How? If the person has nothing to do with the cards they are dealt, how can they be held accountable....for being the owner of a sociopath mind?

Our personalities are part of who we are, created by God. We however are not robots. :) "God loves variety"...that's a movie line, can't remember the movie.

If god is creating the soul determinedly, why create faulty souls? Entertainment?

Christian teaching is, the soul is the part of us that is created in the image of God. Our souls are not faulty. We live in a fallen state. The Good News is Jesus Christ, who raises us up, every time we fall.

[_cafe crema]

LDS theory explains away the paradox of how humans acquire unique individual identities/personalities....with the concept that they grow them in the pre-life.
I'm curious as to the theory of non LDS theologians.....Christians on the subject. When does god create the soul? At or around the birth of the physical? How does he do it? Does the person acquire it's core personality traits through a - roll of the dice-?

If god has nothing to do with the personality a person is dealt, who does? The person? How? If the person has nothing to do with the cards they are dealt, how can they be held accountable....for being the owner of a sociopath mind?

If god is creating the soul determinedly, why create faulty souls? Entertainment?

I don't see LDS theory explaining the paradox, as a matter of fact I see it complicating it with the eternal intelligences and what ever it is that they bring to the personality table. And it seems even more troublesome in the case of sociopaths. How does a sociopath mind develop in the preexistence, how is the sociopath able to willfully develop a sociopath mind right there in front of Heavenly Father? I also don't see how the LDS theory does a better job of addressing a sociopaths accountability???


I've never read any theological explanation for unique individual identities and personalities nor have I seen any indication that the soul is responsible for personality and identity. My guess is that in general Catholics would see personality and identity deriving from a combination of genetics and experience. As for ensoulment, the Catholic church has never taken a position on when that occurs, though it has always (for the most part) considered human life to begin at conception.

[Guest]

There are two main Christian positions on this, though all reject a pre-mortal existence.

Option #1, Creationism: This has nothing to do with the creation of the Earth. The idea is that the soul is created by God at the same time as the body is created by one's parents. God then places the soul in the body at either the time of birth or the time of birth, the time of conception, or something in between.

Option #2, Traducianism: See wiki entry. The basic idea is that both the soul and the body are created by the parents at the same time. In simple terms, your soul is derived from your parents' souls. While this position probably strikes most as odd, it does have several positive things going for it from an orthodox Christian point of view. For example, original sin and our sinful nature become easy to explain, you simply inherit it from your parents. It also gets God out of the business of creating souls, which makes free will much more easy to explain as God is no longer creating and presumably foreordaining your soul.

I agree with others that the LDS view while solving certain problems, tends to just kick the can down the road. Instead of asking questions about souls, one has to start asking about intelligences.