Believers - The Bible

[_Chap]

The doctrine of God having to sacrifice animals and then his own Son is the sickest damn thing people on this earth ever dreamed up. It's really evil. All those poor animals slaughtered because that is what prophets said to do in order to get sins forgiven. Then come the apostles of Jesus! Holy God! God himself must now die in order to get your sins forgiven. What a bunch of garbage!

No thank you, Jesus. Drink your own blood, sucker.

Paul O

This is not sensitively put. It shows little interest in understanding ancient religions - most of which practiced animal sacrifice - in the terms in which perfectly decent ancient people (many of them gay -Paul!) lived them. Its portrait of the Christian theology of redemption is hostile and caricatured.

Still, Paul has a point ... why did Yahweh want all those animals killed? What kind of a system is he running where we all get our sins potentially forgiven because one really nice guy is tortured to death?

There are times when insensitivity serves a useful purpose, after all.

[_KevinSim]

The doctrine of God having to sacrifice animals and then his own Son is the sickest damn thing people on this earth ever dreamed up. It's really evil.

It can't be all bad if it works. Great numbers of people in the world believe that Jesus died for their sins, and in a very real sense put their sins behind them, and I tend to believe that's all that Jesus was trying to do, give those people a way to put their sins behind them. If all we have to do to be saved from Hell is to believe we're saved from Hell, then in those great number of cases Jesus succeeded.

I personally think that all Jesus was trying to do was get our attention. Each of us individually on this planet was in a rut. Each of us lived out her/his life, realized s/he had messed it up, and ended up with her/his conscience tormenting her/him because of it. I believe that's what Hell is, being tormented by one's conscience because one realizes s/he messed up her/his life. But the fact that Jesus suffered and died (presumably for us) distracts us. We can believe He did it to pay for our messed up lives in a way that we could never pay for it ourselves; our consciences stop tormenting us, because we believe the price was paid, and we go on to live our lives free from guilt; in short, we're saved.

[_Shulem]

But the fact that Jesus suffered and died (presumably for us) distracts us. We can believe He did it to pay for our messed up lives in a way that we could never pay for it ourselves; our consciences stop tormenting us, because we believe the price was paid, and we go on to live our lives free from guilt; in short, we're saved.

It's a fact that Jesus suffered and died but a belief that he died for others is only faith born upon the altar of biblical sacrifices and cult-like ritual.

Jesus never knew me. He didn't die for me. I don't need him for forgiveness of sins. I forgive myself! I don't give a damn what God thinks about my so-called sins. I forgive and love myself and am healed and at peace. If God requires me to accept the sacrifice of his Son in order for him to forgive me of so-called sins, then that is his problem because he won't be able to forgive me although I have forgiven me. So, that makes me greater than God and more loving too. A sacrifice was not needed. All that's needed is to love oneself and to love others and God can love us too. No need to send the Son to take a beating and be nailed up on the cross for public consumption. No need to eat his flesh and drink his blood and join a cult!

Paul O

[_KevinSim]

Jesus never knew me. He didn't die for me. I don't need him for forgiveness of sins. I forgive myself! I don't give a damn what God thinks about my so-called sins. I forgive and love myself and am healed and at peace.

I'm glad to hear that you've found yourself "healed and at peace." I'm tempted to say, though, that you may feel at peace and healed now, but what will your conscience feel like a thousand years from now? Will you still be at peace then?

You say you're healed; as well might someone who has suffered from cancer pronounce himself healed after that someone's cancer has gone into remission. The question is, what do medical professionals say about this someone's cancer? If this person has no medical background s/he would be wise to listen to what those professionals have to tell her/him about this someone's chances of having the cancer come back. When it comes to dealing with one's conscience, the medical professional is God Himself.

[_ludwigm]

You do realize the Bible is compete, and utter dog crap?

Let's discuss.

- VRDRC

No, thanks.

As far as it is translated correctly. I should start some threads about translation...

[_Buffalo]

It's literature, not dog crap. Taken as literature, it has value just as Chaucer and Shakespeare have value.

[_Quasimodo]

It's literature, not dog crap. Taken as literature, it has value just as Chaucer and Shakespeare have value.

Sorry Buff. To me it reads like the phone book. It's only literature in the academic sense. I could also say the same for Chaucer (in that case you may be correct). Shakespeare is in a whole different category. Truly literature.

[Guest]

It can't be all bad if it works. Great numbers of people in the world believe that Jesus died for their sins, and in a very real sense put their sins behind them, and I tend to believe that's all that Jesus was trying to do, give those people a way to put their sins behind them. If all we have to do to be saved from Hell is to believe we're saved from Hell, then in those great number of cases Jesus succeeded.

For 50 points, who can explain how the above statement is begging the question?

ETA---Here's a hint: "sins."

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Over a billion Muslims believe the Quran to be True. Clearly Muhammed saved humanity for Allah's grace as witnessed through the Quran.

[_Shulem]

When it comes to dealing with one's conscience, the medical professional is God Himself.

Yeah, and according to the Bible and Book of Mormon he is also a professional killer! How many poor souls have died because he loses his temper and acts like a madman -- burying whole cities and burning everyone to the ground.

No thanks. I want nothing to do with your murderous god. He should be locked up in a bottle and tossed to the open sea where he will sink forever and never be heard from again.

Paul O