Non Mormon, Christian POV on pre-existence

[_Dantana]

But again, If God is directly, purposefully, hands on creating each specific soul......and it doesn't really matter when...... why create souls that need tested, rated and sorted? If God is creating souls and putting them in bodies to be tested, it seems logical that he would make them equal and perfect. (and they certainly don't seem to be) If they are equal and perfect, why would they need sorted? Why create souls that he seemingly must know will be destined for eternal doom? What could god possibly get out of such a venture? How does a perfect being need anything in the first place?

I don't really know much about the non-LDS Christian God, but If God is an entity on a level that humans can never attain, What's he/it up to? Entertainment? Seriously, this is my primary question- What else could it be besides entertainment?

[_cafe crema]

But again, If God is directly, purposefully, hands on creating each specific soul......and it doesn't really matter when...... why create souls that need tested, rated and sorted? If God is creating souls and putting them in bodies to be tested, it seems logical that he would make them equal and perfect. (and they certainly don't seem to be) If they are equal and perfect, why would they need sorted? Why create souls that he seemingly must know will be destined for eternal doom? What could god possibly get out of such a venture? How does a perfect being need anything in the first place?

I don't really know much about the non-LDS Christian God, but If God is an entity on a level that humans can never attain, What's he/it up to? Entertainment? Seriously, this is my primary question- What else could it be besides entertainment?

Why don't souls seem equal?

[_Dantana]

But again, If God is directly, purposefully, hands on creating each specific soul......and it doesn't really matter when...... why create souls that need tested, rated and sorted? If God is creating souls and putting them in bodies to be tested, it seems logical that he would make them equal and perfect. (and they certainly don't seem to be) If they are equal and perfect, why would they need sorted? Why create souls that he seemingly must know will be destined for eternal doom? What could god possibly get out of such a venture? How does a perfect being need anything in the first place?

I don't really know much about the non-LDS Christian God, but If God is an entity on a level that humans can never attain, What's he/it up to? Entertainment? Seriously, this is my primary question- What else could it be besides entertainment?

Why don't souls seem equal?

Well, if souls all have equal amounts of say, integrity, as a core, god given trait, then this doesn't need to be tested and judged. My question would be, what is being tested and judged, this god given equal core, or how it behaves under different situations. Like testing a road bike in the mud with the same rating criteria.

[_cafe crema]

Well, if souls all have equal amounts of say, integrity, as a core, god given trait, then this doesn't need to be tested and judged. My question would be, what is being tested and judged, this god given equal core, or how it behaves under different situations. Like testing a road bike in the mud with the same rating criteria.

I guess I've never been taught or heard that "integrity" is an attribute of the soul or as a "God given" attribute. Integrity is an attribute developed through living life not something that is given to a person at what ever point.

[_Samantabhadra]

My understanding of Catholic doctrine is that souls are eternal. Eternity however does not refer to a length of time, since duration is a property of regular time (as opposed to the "timeless time" of eternity). It's also crucial to understand that the soul does not refer to the ego or the personality; the ego is what we have to purify, and the personality is neither timeless nor changeless.

As for Buddhism, I'm very curious as to what you mean by "oneness theory." Standard Buddhist teaching is that the self does not exist, especially not as a single entity. Rather, all there is are the psycho-physical "bundles" (skandhas, sometimes translated "aggregates" but I prefer the echoes of Hume because it's the exact same point). Differences among sentient beings are explained via an appeal to a continuous stream of beginningless past lives; our experiences and proclivities in the present life are conditioned by prior actions.

[_Dantana]

Well, if souls all have equal amounts of say, integrity, as a core, god given trait, then this doesn't need to be tested and judged. My question would be, what is being tested and judged, this god given equal core, or how it behaves under different situations. Like testing a road bike in the mud with the same rating criteria.

I guess I've never been taught or heard that "integrity" is an attribute of the soul or as a "God given" attribute. Integrity is an attribute developed through living life not something that is given to a person at what ever point.

How does one define a soul CC? How do you define it? I guess I just assumed that if God is creating souls, he must be giving them different attributes. Honesty, integrity, empathy.....laziness, pride, envy.....If these aren't personality traits that define a person, then what are?
The Morms believe a soul is actually made of physical substance, which to me is just nuts. Here is my thread on it over at MADB...http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/571 ... n-atheist/
As if a soul is a box of thoughts, a reciepe....one part integrity, one part cleverness etc.

Personally, I think all of these attributes come with this human existence, that the sense of self is illusion. If one strips away all the layers of ego/self, whats left? Nutten. Just an awareness.

[_Dantana]

My understanding of Catholic doctrine is that souls are eternal. Eternity however does not refer to a length of time, since duration is a property of regular time (as opposed to the "timeless time" of eternity). It's also crucial to understand that the soul does not refer to the ego or the personality; the ego is what we have to purify, and the personality is neither timeless nor changeless.

As for Buddhism, I'm very curious as to what you mean by "oneness theory." Standard Buddhist teaching is that the self does not exist, especially not as a single entity. Rather, all there is are the psycho-physical "bundles" (skandhas, sometimes translated "aggregates" but I prefer the echoes of Hume because it's the exact same point). Differences among sentient beings are explained via an appeal to a continuous stream of beginningless past lives; our experiences and proclivities in the present life are conditioned by prior actions.

Well I did qualify my statement with..."For argument sake, I guess some form of Buddhism would best describe my philosophies" meaning, I really don't don't know what I am. Certainly not as knowledgeable in the eastern philosophies, and philosophy in general as you. I'll have to get back to you a little later on the other

[_cafe crema]

Well, if souls all have equal amounts of say, integrity, as a core, god given trait, then this doesn't need to be tested and judged. My question would be, what is being tested and judged, this god given equal core, or how it behaves under different situations. Like testing a road bike in the mud with the same rating criteria.

I guess I've never been taught or heard that "integrity" is an attribute of the soul or as a "God given" attribute. Integrity is an attribute developed through living life not something that is given to a person at what ever point.

How does one define a soul CC? How do you define it? I guess I just assumed that if God is creating souls, he must be giving them different attributes. Honesty, integrity, empathy.....laziness, pride, envy.....If these aren't personality traits that define a person, then what are?

Well yes they are personality traits but the soul is not the seat of personality, it does not possess honesty, integrity, laziness or dourness and so forth. The soul is the part of us that images God, since we believe God is spirit. If that makes me any clearer

[_Dantana]

Well yes they are personality traits but the soul is not the seat of personality, it does not possess honesty, integrity, laziness or dourness and so forth. The soul is the part of us that images God, since we believe God is spirit. If that makes me any clearer

Actually no, I'm not getting it. If the soul doesn't possess any unique to itself personality traits, what distinguishes one from another? And, what exactly is god testing and rating?

[_cafe crema]

Well yes they are personality traits but the soul is not the seat of personality, it does not possess honesty, integrity, laziness or dourness and so forth. The soul is the part of us that images God, since we believe God is spirit. If that makes me any clearer

Actually no, I'm not getting it. If the soul doesn't possess any unique to itself personality traits, what distinguishes one from another? And, what exactly is god testing and rating?

Well the soul would be taken together with the body (where personality comes from) forming a unique individual. The resulting individual could be "tested" but honestly I've never really been taught that the purpose of this life is for God to test us, that it can be testing yes but that is not the purpose of this life. It certainly wasn't in the beginning.