christians do you really believe

[_Drifting]

I'd have to answer no to this question.
On the basis that it really isn't clear that the God of Mormonism has done much of anything at all.

Nonetheless, it's better for one to do nothing than it is for one to let a single soul suffer unbearable agony forever, when one has the power to cause that soul to cease to exist.

I don't personally believe the God of Mormonism has done nothing; I believe He's done a lot. But one thing you can't accuse Him of is unnecessarily prolonging the suffering of the unsaved.

What do you think He's done?

[_thews]

I'm glad you acknowledge that the Mormon God and Christian God are different.

I'm more than happy to acknowledge that there are vast differences between God as Biblical Christians understand Him and God as Latter-day Saints understand Him.

The LDS version of Jesus Christ is a "personage" that is distinctly different than the Christian theology.

You can be a openly gay Christian. You cannot be an openly gay Mormon.

You can be an openly gay Mormon. You just cannot be sexually active without risking your membership in the Mormon Church.

You're just using wordplay to attempt to make a point here. Let me rephrase: You can be an openly gay sexually active Christian. You cannot be an openly gay sexually active Mormon.

What God wants, God gets. God doesn't make mistakes, but Mormonism teaches its members that God screws up all the time, which is why their doctrine has to change. To say God didn't consciously make gay people is a ridiculous position.

What's so ridiculous about it? Why should I believe that what God wants God gets? What God wants is people who will use their free will to choose to follow Him, but the LDS Church teaches it's impossible, even for God, to create intelligent people out of nothing, so God has to content Himself with the intelligent people that actually exist in spirit form. God cannot create out of nothing people who will use their free will to follow Him, so God doesn't always get what He wants.

As I have pointed out, the LDS church teaches its members that God is not perfect. This is how the doctrine change in 1978 is packaged. If you wish to believe that a God who created you and the entire universe make mistakes that justify your need explain issues, then go ahead, but it doesn't make sense. Someday you may wish to actually question the things about LDS theology that don't make any sense at all and quit attempting to rationalize an excuse to cover it. Mormon doctrine comes from the magical occult seer stones Joseph Smith owned and placed in his stove-pipe hat used to see evil treasure guardians for hire before there ever was the supposed golden plates, and if you're good with that, along with an incorrectly "translated" pagan document from the book of the dead to come up with the Book of Abraham, then it's hardly surprising that your logic includes a God that's inherently flawed.

[_MCB]

Not only that, but I just completed a series of discussions of the Isaiah chapters in the Book of Mormon, using H. Gorton's (1994) analysis of the changes to antisemitic meanings (which Gorton lauds), and D. Wright's (2002) analysis of missed corrections of the KJV text. The composite of the studies is quite revealing. The changes and lack of changes reveal a grossly mangled set of chapters.

No inspiration or ancient text there.

[_krose]

Most people, exiting from Mormonism, are too confused to go directly to another religion.

That sounds pretty condescending.

[_KevinSim]

What do you think He's done?

I think He caused the Big Bang. I think He sent Jesus to Earth to pay for all our sins. That second one was the big accomplishment.

I also think He inspired Joseph Smith to set up His church the way He wanted it, and that He inspired Smith's successors down to and including Thomas Monson, to lead His church the way He wanted it led.

[_KevinSim]

Most people, exiting from Mormonism, are too confused to go directly to another religion.

That sounds pretty condescending.

I agree with Krose.

And I think the real problem is that when Christian critics get Mormons skeptical enough to question their faith, those critics are surprised to see their clients applying the same criticism to the Biblical Christian claims.

The LDS Church doesn't confuse its members who then leave. It's just that after being exposed to LDS ideas no other religions make sense. When Christian critics manage to tear it down, they don't realize it but they're really tearing down Biblical Christianity as well.

[_KevinSim]

The LDS version of Jesus Christ is a "personage" that is distinctly different than the Christian theology.

Thews, are you referring to how Joseph Smith described the two people He saw back in 1820? I really don't see how you can say that the "LDS version of Jesus Christ" is all that different from the Biblical Christian one, so if you could point out how they're different I'd really appreciate it.

As I have pointed out, the LDS church teaches its members that God is not perfect.

Thews, what exactly do you mean by an imperfect God?

This is how the doctrine change in 1978 is packaged. If you wish to believe that a God who created you and the entire universe make mistakes that justify your need explain issues, then go ahead, but it doesn't make sense.

Latter-day Saints don't believe that God makes mistakes; it's the men He chooses as His spokesmen that make mistakes. God knew that Joseph Smith was the best man of his time to take God's message to the world, so He chose him. That doesn't mean Smith wouldn't make mistakes; God knew Smith would make mistakes. God just knew that despite the mistakes Smith made Smith would still get God's message out the way He wanted it. The same thing with Brigham Young and his successors.

[_Drifting]

Latter-day Saints don't believe that God makes mistakes; it's the men He chooses as His spokesmen that make mistakes.

Brilliant.

So, all knowing God selects people who misrepresent Him and His doctrine and that's not a mistake. Brilliant.

[Guest]

So, all knowing God selects people who misrepresent Him and His doctrine and that's not a mistake.

Drifting, what do you mean by "all knowing"? People use that phrase a lot, but I'm not sure any of them know what it means.

But regardless, no matter what God knows, there's no way to get around the fact that any given human being will misrepresent Him to some extent, and His doctrine to some extent. If you believe in a God who is all-powerful (once again, whatever that ill-defined adjective actually means), perhaps you can argue that God is capable of creating men who will always describe God and His doctrine perfectly, without any error.

But Latter-day Saints don't believe that God has the power to do literally anything that can be imagined. In particular God cannot create intelligence, and a pretty much universal tendency to mess up comes with intelligence. So God is forced to choose as His spokesmen men who He knows will eventually mess up to some degree. God chose men who He knew would distort Him and His message as little as possible, and yes, that choice was not a mistake. Better to have spokesmen who get the general message right than to have no spokesmen at all.

[_KevinSim]

Well, if you want to get nasty about it, I don't believe in the Mormon god. He is an evil imposter.

I had no intent to "get nasty"; I just wanted to get at the truth.

If you believe "the Mormon god" is an evil impostor, then I've got to ask you, what has "the Mormon god" ever done that convinced you he's evil? Has he ever done something that caused more damage to the souls of men and women than letting them spend the rest of eternity in unbearable agony, when he had the power to cause them to cease to exist at any time?

MCB and Aristotle Smith, were either of you planning on responding to this?