The Light of Christ

[_gdemetz]

Thews, you are as blind as a bat! How many truly scholarly references will it take to open your blind eyes up?!? I'm giving you very good non Mormon references! Okay, you want a Mormon one from FAIR? Okay, here it is:

"Attempts to shrug this off (baptism for the dead) as a reference by Paul to a practice he does not condone but only uses to support the doctrine of the resurrection are indefensible. Paul's statement makes no sense unless the practice was valid and the saints in Corinth knew it. This is easily demonstrated if we just imagine a young protestant, who doubts the resurrection, who goes to his pastor with his problem. The pastor answers him saying, "But what about the Mormons who practice baptism for the dead? If the dead rise not at all, why are they then baptized for the dead?" You know what the young doubter would say {unless he is Albion}. He would say, "Pastor, they are Mormons, what's your point?"

"In fact, we know that baptism for the dead was practiced for a long time in the early church. As John A. Tvedtnes has noted:

"historical records are clear on the matter. Baptism for the dead was performed by the dominant church until forbidden by the 6th canon of the council of Carthage in 397 AD. Some of the smaller sects, however, continued the practice..."

I recommend reading the whole article from FAIR, particularly the section entitled "Ancient Roots."

[_Drifting]

I glad you mentioned 2 Timothy! Those verses are referring to you guys! As I said before, you guys can always come up with some little cheap anti Mormon site which wants to change history. However, what helped my conversion were the real scholarly sites! I would go to the university library and research real factual history and teachings, etc. The interpreters Bible has 900 scholars who know these things! I will also give you another real scholarly source, "A Companion to the Bible."

"At Corinth, certain CHRISTIANS had themselves baptized substitutionally for some of the dead who had not had the opportunity of hearing the gospel, in the desire to place them too within the benefit of Christ's death. This baptism had the aim of giviing these dead a chance of rising again for salvation."

In other words, a chance to be born of the water, etc. which is a requisite for salvation! My gosh man! There are many records of baptisms for the dead being performed by Christians for centuries, and the apostate council of Carthage tries to eliminate it as late as 397 AD with it's 6th canon which forbade any further practice! You apostates try to change doctrine, and even change history!!!

But wait! Here is another site which agrees with you: "Papa Joes born again site" - learn the truth about those ole Mormons! How the had all them there wives, and haw they baptized all them dead people!

If it is a prerequisite for salvation what happens to those aboriginal babies in the Amazon or the Australian outback who die without any record of their existence?

Bump

[_gdemetz]

Those who have already passed on as well as angels will have to help us with that work. God overlooks no one.

[_Drifting]

Those who have already passed on as well as angels will have to help us with that work. God overlooks no one.

But we are told specifically, as the reason for temples, that these ordinances have to take place in THIS LIFE. It is why such a great emphasis is placed on going to the Temple. This work cannot be done in the next life. Can you point to a single solitary Church doctrinal reference that supports your opinion that angels can do work for the dead in the next life? Thought not.

[_gdemetz]

Did I state that they weren't done in this life? No, I didn't. I merely stated that they would assist us. I think I see why you are an apostate now.

[_Drifting]

Did I state that they weren't done in this life? No, I didn't. I merely stated that they would assist us. I think I see why you are an apostate now.

Sorry dude, my mistake.
Now show me a Church doctrinal reference that supports your assertion...

[_gdemetz]

Wikipedia:

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS church) has 135 operating temples worldwide to perform endowment ceremonies, marriages, and other services for both the living and by proxy in behalf of dead ancestors."

[_Drifting]

Wikipedia:

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS church) has 135 operating temples worldwide to perform endowment ceremonies, marriages, and other services for both the living and by proxy in behalf of dead ancestors."

Two things:
1. Wikipedia is not an official Church doctrinal reference guide (unless something's changed)
2. Your quote says nothing about angels filling in the blanks for people who have died without any record of their living existence.

Apart from that....great quote...

[_Tarski]

Tarski, it is what the prophets have taught. Do you have a better explanation of the omnipresence of God? If you do, share it with us, by all means!

Here are two.

1) There is no God

2) If the is a God there is no reason that we should expect to have the capacity to understand or have an explanation for the omnipresence of God.

Most importantly;

Your explanation is not an explanation at all. It is the mere noising of muddled undefined words with no explanatory power or connection to the web of actual knowledge. It adds nothing but only (at best) rephrases or renames that which needs explaining. In short, vacuous nonsense that just makes slow-wits feel good.

[_thews]

Thews, you are as blind as a bat! How many truly scholarly references will it take to open your blind eyes up?!? I'm giving you very good non Mormon references! Okay, you want a Mormon one from FAIR? Okay, here it is:

"Attempts to shrug this off (baptism for the dead) as a reference by Paul to a practice he does not condone but only uses to support the doctrine of the resurrection are indefensible. Paul's statement makes no sense unless the practice was valid and the saints in Corinth knew it. This is easily demonstrated if we just imagine a young protestant, who doubts the resurrection, who goes to his pastor with his problem. The pastor answers him saying, "But what about the Mormons who practice baptism for the dead? If the dead rise not at all, why are they then baptized for the dead?" You know what the young doubter would say {unless he is Albion}. He would say, "Pastor, they are Mormons, what's your point?"

"In fact, we know that baptism for the dead was practiced for a long time in the early church. As John A. Tvedtnes has noted:

"historical records are clear on the matter. Baptism for the dead was performed by the dominant church until forbidden by the 6th canon of the council of Carthage in 397 AD. Some of the smaller sects, however, continued the practice..."

I recommend reading the whole article from FAIR, particularly the section entitled "Ancient Roots."

I didn't ask you about baptism for the dead. You said the six points (based on fact and not on opinion) I listed were, in your words, "ridiculous" and failed to state why. You then claimed the answer regarding why could be found at Fair. You then attempted to argue racism and polygamy, before hitting a dead end and running away. Now, you're attempting to argue a topic (baptism for the dead) that can be twisted with interpretation. I'm not interested in anything but facts, which you said I could find at Fair. Either put up, or shut up. If you're going to make claims you have to back them up, but again I must assume you simply aren't intelligent enough to formulate a retort. So use Fair to explain why the six points I listed are "ridiculous" and you may gain an ounce of credibility.