Tobin wrote:... 95% of the population of the planet ... believe in a God.
Ignoring the silliness of an argument by popularity (after all, almost everyone once believed the world was flat and that the sun revolved around the Earth, which a huge number of people still believe is only 6000 years old, along with homo sapiens), where do you get this number of 95%?
The percentage even in the USA, one of the most overtly religious nations on the planet, is lower than that. Much of Western Europe is atheist. And what about China?
We've already discussed this on here. http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23527 In fact, 95% of Americans responded to an ABC poll that they believe in a God. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/wat/archive/wat042400.htm Also, it is interesting that you stated that belief in a God was like believing the world was flat. Yet, despite the remarkable advancement in science, literacy, and education over the past 300 years - the belief in a God is universally pervasive. It would seem that you are the only one engaging in fallacies and not knowing the facts (something you could easily have looked up on the internet if you could be bothered to educate yourself at all).
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Alfredo wrote:I think you're a little bit confused so let me clarify.
What must be a delusion is your conclusion that the source of your experience can be trusted to reveal itself. That is, unless you can provide evidence to the contrary. Have fun.
I'm not trying to prove to you my faith is true. If you wish to know that for yourself, you'll have to ask God. This delusion you call it, or faith in a supreme being that the rest of us (~ 95% of the human population on the planet) share, is something you have to obtain yourself. It is interesting that you would think the overwhelming majority of the rest of humanity is crazy. Maybe you should consider that it is you that is deluded.
I still think you're still a bit confused. What is the argument you think I'm trying to make? You've provided no counter-argument. You've just presented a new one. I'm not sure you understand the point I was making.
Alfredo wrote:I think you're a little bit confused so let me clarify. What must be a delusion is your conclusion that the source of your experience can be trusted to reveal itself. That is, unless you can provide evidence to the contrary. Have fun.
I'm not trying to prove to you my faith is true. If you wish to know that for yourself, you'll have to ask God. This delusion you call it, or faith in a supreme being that the rest of us (~ 95% of the human population on the planet) share, is something you have to obtain yourself. It is interesting that you would think the overwhelming majority of the rest of humanity is crazy. Maybe you should consider that it is you that is deluded.
Alfredo wrote:I still think you're still a bit confused. What is the argument you think I'm trying to make? You've provided no counter-argument. You've just presented a new one. I'm not sure you understand the point I was making.
What is there to understand? Your position is, unless you have evidence that there is a supreme being, you won't believe in one and that everyone that maintains there is one is also suffering a delusion. I pointed out that is a bizarre position to maintain since the vast majority (including myself) of humanity believe in a supreme being and it unlikely that everyone else is deluded. Especially since you have yet to prove there can not possibly be a God. So perhaps it is you that is mistaken in your assertion that due to your unwillingness and/or inability to experience such things (or perhaps you have and are just in denial), that it must be other people that are deluded.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
mms - Real scientists don't disprove religious texts.
Sure they do. When religious texts make falsifiable claims, scientists have no problem refuting those claims. You don't get to hide behind the taboo of having your false beliefs called "religious." Either they are true or they're not, period.
I know a lot of people say, when asked, that they believe in a deity.
So far as it has any factual content, I think their belief is false. There have been many very widely held beliefs that turned out to be false. This looks to me like one of them.
I do not however claim that they are in a state of mental illness that could reasonably be described as delusional. To claim that I do is to attack a straw man rather than my actual position.
Actually I think virtually no atheists I know would claim that theists are in a state of mental illness that could reasonably be described as delusional. They just think theists are mistaken.
So who is Tobin attacking, exactly?
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
mms - Real scientists don't disprove religious texts.
Sure they do. When religious texts make falsifiable claims, scientists have no problem refuting those claims. You don't get to hide behind the taboo of having your false beliefs called "religious." Either they are true or they're not, period.
You are really stretching there Kevin. Demonstrating that a claim like the earth is only 7,000 years old according to the Bible is false does not disprove the Bible, because the claim itself is suspect and may not be what the Bible teaches. There may be a number of reasons the claim may be false (or demonstrably false) which has nothing to do with the inspired nature of the text itself, but in reality can be attributed to a poor interpretation or limitation in understanding of the men who wrote the text itself.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote: Demonstrating that a claim like the earth is only 7,000 years old according to the Bible is false does not disprove the Bible, because the claim itself is suspect and may not be what the Bible teaches. There may be a number of reasons the claim may be false (or demonstrably false) which has nothing to do with the inspired nature of the text itself, but in reality can be attributed to a poor interpretation or limitation in understanding of the men who wrote the text itself.
You're utterly cracked in the head, Tobin -- brain dead. How in the hell is text in the Bible supposed to be of an "inspired nature" while at the same time was written by men who had "poor interpretation or limitation in understanding"? NO, please don't explain, I can't stand to hear your garbage!
The Bible has a chronology built in which dates things back to 6,000 years. That can't be contested because it's math and not open to abstract interpretation. Hence, the Bible has been proven wrong just like the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 have been proven wrong. Bible prophets and Joe Smith are fools. We live in modern times but some people such as you live in the past and cling to myth and uninspired garbage produced by men. You should pay more attention to science and drag your sorry ass out of the Dark Ages.
Tobin wrote: Demonstrating that a claim like the earth is only 7,000 years old according to the Bible is false does not disprove the Bible, because the claim itself is suspect and may not be what the Bible teaches. There may be a number of reasons the claim may be false (or demonstrably false) which has nothing to do with the inspired nature of the text itself, but in reality can be attributed to a poor interpretation or limitation in understanding of the men who wrote the text itself.
You're utterly cracked in the head, Tobin -- brain dead. How in the hell is text in the Bible supposed to be of an "inspired nature" while at the same time was written by men who had "poor interpretation or limitation in understanding"? NO, please don't explain, I can't stand to hear your garbage!
The Bible has a chronology built in which dates things back to 6,000 years. That can't be contested because it's math and not open to abstract interpretation. Hence, the Bible has been proven wrong just like the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 have been proven wrong. Bible prophets and Joe Smith are fools. We live in modern times but some people such as you live in the past and cling to myth and uninspired garbage produced by men. You should pay more attention to science and drag your sorry ass out of the Dark Ages.
You're reasoning is so pathetic.
Paul O
Or in other words, you don't like it (or don't want to hear it) when someone might give a reasonable answer to how the Bible may be an inspired work in the modern age. Yes, I can see how that might disturb you, cause you to call someone names, and state they are in "the Dark Ages".
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote:Or in other words, you don't like it (or don't want to hear it) when someone might give a reasonable answer to how the Bible may be an inspired work in the modern age. Yes, I can see how that might disturb you, cause you to call someone names, and state they are in "the Dark Ages".
Laugh it up fuzzball. Bible chronology is a lie! It's not just mistakes made by men but wholesale lies -- all 6,000 years worth. And your Facsimile No. 3 (which Joe Smith used as a sexual good luck charm when screwing little girls) is also a lie.
And, your Book of Mormon is good for toilet paper.
