Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement

[_why me]

Half a minute. The witness statements are supposed to be what real living people set down as a record of what they have seen. These are human voices speaking, or they aren't what they claim to be. By reason of that fact, they couldn't be more different from revelation.

None of the witnesses contradicted their statement in the book or Mormon. Nor did they ever deny what they saw and felt with their hands. In other words, the three witnesses never denied the vision and the 8 witnesses never denied not seeing the plates and feeling them with their hands. End of story.

[_Frodo]

The fact that there appear to be textual similarities between the Book of Mormon and the text of the 3 witness statement as per the link in the OP is cause for concern as per my last post. The fact that the text of the 8 witness statement has been altered after the fact is cause for concern. The witnesses statements themselves regarding their testimony does not bear on these concerns. in my opinion

[_lulu]

Half a minute. The witness statements are supposed to be what real living people set down as a record of what they have seen. These are human voices speaking, or they aren't what they claim to be. By reason of that fact, they couldn't be more different from revelation.

None of the witnesses contradicted their statement in the book or Mormon. Nor did they ever deny what they saw and felt with their hands. . . End of story.

Beginning of story.

John Whitmer: "I now say, I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides. ...they were shown to me by a supernatural power" (History of the Church, Vol. 3, p. 307)

http://www.mormonthink.com/witnessesweb.htm#sumof11

[_Rufus]

Beginning of story.

John Whitmer: "I now say, I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides. ...they were shown to me by a supernatural power" (History of the Church, Vol. 3, p. 307)

http://www.mormonthink.com/witnessesweb.htm#sumof11[/quote][/quote]



In other words, they saw the plates and handled them with their "Spritual Eyes".

[_lulu]

This was answered in a prior thread. The statement of the 8 is in Cowdery's handwriting and is part of the printer's Book of Mormon manuscript. That is stated on another page on the JSPP site.

Ah, thanks.

http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSumma ... ust-1829#1
I dug the link out of the Decent Post on Proof and Evidence at Sic et Non thread
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23924

The 2nd 1/2 of the thread has alot about the 8 witnesses.

[_why me]

Beginning of story.

John Whitmer: "I now say, I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides. ...they were shown to me by a supernatural power" (History of the Church, Vol. 3, p. 307)

http://www.mormonthink.com/witnessesweb.htm#sumof11

End of story:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7002 ... ormon.html

[_lulu]

Beginning of story.

John Whitmer: "I now say, I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides. ...they were shown to me by a supernatural power" (History of the Church, Vol. 3, p. 307)

http://www.mormonthink.com/witnessesweb.htm#sumof11

End of story:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7002 ... ormon.html

Middle of story - please engage specificly, directly and substantively with the "supernatural power" issue in your next post on this thread. Thanks in advance.

[_GR33N]

http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2012/06/who-authored-the-three-witness-statement/

WOW, just WOW. That Royal admits Smith is the author of the witness statement is ... to my mind...just WOW!

After reading Metcalfe, Vogel and Marquardt's works I had come to this conclusion, but to have a BYU prof and believing Mormon admit this is quite ground breaking I believe.

This is up there with the BYU boys admitting the Indians all came from Asia and not the Middle East.

I realize FAIR/MI/FARMS will say they have always said this and all Mormons know this, but I think this is a huge admission.

I'm curious, can you provide links, information etc. on the works by the names I've bolded in your quote?

[_Carton]

Really fascinating stuff, Joe. You may be interested to know that, a couple of years ago, I was told by an "informant" that Skousen had "royally" pissed off some of the Powers-that-Be in Salt Lake City over his work on the Book of Mormon. I'm sure you can understand why: Skousen's work effectively argued that his own critical version of the Book of Mormon is/was more "authoritative" than the one overseen by Joseph Smith himself. If I'm not mistaken, Skousen ignored GA recommendations and went ahead with his publication in spite of what they told him.

Wow! I hadn't heard this, but it sounds quite believable. You have to hand it to Skousen for having the courage to stand up against "The Brethren". Compare what Skousen did to what Peterson et al did in the Dehlin "hit piece" affair.

[_Carton]

Thanks Doc.

All of my friends have nothing but good things to say about Royal. The consistent thing that is said about Royal is that he is the only scholar found at the Maxwell Institute. My guess would be that Royal is such a classy person, he would never suggest such a thing.

Good points, Joe.

I also think it's very telling that Skousen has stayed completely away from the whole Book of Abraham controversy. No doubt he is smart enough to know there is no way to defend Joseph Smith when it comes to the Book of Abraham debacle. At least if one wants to retain his academic credentials.