Our beloved nevermos

[_Chap]

... the dear chap ....

Why, that is really kind of you.

[_CaliforniaKid]

Why, that is really kind of you.

haha! Are you a nevermo, Chap? I'm not sure you've ever told us your story. In any case, I've learned a great deal from your posts, which are always both very smart and very friendly. A surprisingly rare combination of virtues.

[_why me]

Interestingly, most of the nevermos are antimormon. They lurk on Mormon boards, not wanting to see any positives about the LDS church and go to their home boards and post antimormon posts thereby contributing to the misunderstanding that others have of Mormons and Mormonism. My catholic friends on this board are a case in point.

Now if we had some nevermos who are positive about the LDS church, it may help the tone around here.

[_why me]

Thanks, zee! The whyme bit made me laugh. :)

Zee is jealous that he never had a Mormon lay when he was young and horny.

[_Drifting]

Jesus is Mormon. From the very beginning in fact.

And yet, mistakenly, people called him King of the Jews.
Were Jews Mormon back then?

[_Chap]

Why, that is really kind of you.

haha! Are you a nevermo, Chap? I'm not sure you've ever told us your story. In any case, I've learned a great deal from your posts, which are always both very smart and very friendly. A surprisingly rare combination of virtues.

Gosh, thanks, same to you ... "As, ladling butter from alternate tubs, Stubbs butter'd Freeman, Freeman butter'd Stubbs".

Indeed, I have never been a member of the CoJCoLDS or any other Mormon church. For various reasons, I prefer to operate under heavy protection against the risk of any in real life disclosure - partly to avoid problems, and partly because I think it makes for more interesting and fairer discussions if posts have to stand entirely on their own merits, without anybody being able to say "But I must be right, I have a Masters in XXXX from YYYYY".

But there is nothing risky about saying that I had a fairly lengthy and intense involvement with belief in a version of Christianity that might be called Episcopalian. I was, I think, an effective amateur apologist for mainstream Christianity, and knew good answers to most objections. But the point came where I asked myself whether that was enough, and whether I could think of a good reason why I would have invested myself in this system of belief and worship if I had not been born into it. And yes, every objection can be answered, but why are there so many that need to be answered?

Why do I find Mormonism interesting? Well, I think it is a wonderful example of how it is no fatal disadvantage to a religious movement if its basic fact-claims are so implausible that any impartial and uncommitted outsider would dismiss them as at best the product of self-deception, or at worst the result of simple fraud, and if its doctrinal claims are deeply incoherent. So long as people learn the religion when they are kids, they will not see the problems unless someone forces them on their attention - and then they may well refuse to see them.

That has helped me enormously, since I now realize that my previous commitment to an at least superficially less problematic set of factual and doctrinal claims was basically an example of the same phenomenon. Re-adopting my previous form of Christian belief would be the same kind of thing as my choosing to become a Mormon. And that I am not about to do!

[_harmony]

Interestingly, most of the nevermos are antimormon. They lurk on Mormon boards, not wanting to see any positives about the LDS church and go to their home boards and post antimormon posts thereby contributing to the misunderstanding that others have of Mormons and Mormonism. My catholic friends on this board are a case in point.

Now if we had some nevermos who are positive about the LDS church, it may help the tone around here.

Wrong.

[_Yoda]

Interestingly, most of the nevermos are antimormon. They lurk on Mormon boards, not wanting to see any positives about the LDS church and go to their home boards and post antimormon posts thereby contributing to the misunderstanding that others have of Mormons and Mormonism. My catholic friends on this board are a case in point.

Now if we had some nevermos who are positive about the LDS church, it may help the tone around here.

Ms. Jack, Ceeboo, and Chris Smith have all had positive things to say about the LDS Church. They also "call things as they see them" as far as the negative impressions of the Church that they have. However, they are very even-handed. I would not classify any of these folks as anti-Mormon.

[_Kishkumen]

Why do I find Mormonism interesting? Well, I think it is a wonderful example of how it is no fatal disadvantage to a religious movement if its basic fact-claims are so implausible that any impartial and uncommitted outsider would dismiss them as at best the product of self-deception, or at worst the result of simple fraud, and if its doctrinal claims are deeply incoherent. So long as people learn the religion when they are kids, they will not see the problems unless someone forces them on their attention - and then they may well refuse to see them.

That has helped me enormously, since I now realize that my previous commitment to an at least superficially less problematic set of factual and doctrinal claims was basically an example of the same phenomenon. Re-adopting my previous form of Christian belief would be the same kind of thing as my choosing to become a Mormon. And that I am not about to do!

I had no idea that Chap is a nevermo. Huh! Well, I obviously have not been paying close enough attention. Also, I have to say that his explanation for why Mormonism is interesting is one of the best I have read. It rings so true to me. Of course, with religion, wild claims have never been an impediment to the deepest devotion. Indeed, the wilder the claim, the deeper the devotion may become. As P.T. Barnum once said, there's a sucker born every minute. And, I add, I (insert your own name here, just like I do) am the biggest sucker of all. If everyone kept that in mind, and did not get on their high horse, the world would be a much friendlier place.

[_Kishkumen]

Interestingly, most of the nevermos are antimormon. They lurk on Mormon boards, not wanting to see any positives about the LDS church and go to their home boards and post antimormon posts thereby contributing to the misunderstanding that others have of Mormons and Mormonism. My catholic friends on this board are a case in point.

Now if we had some nevermos who are positive about the LDS church, it may help the tone around here.

Ms. Jack, Ceeboo, and Chris Smith have all had positive things to say about the LDS Church. They also "call things as they see them" as far as the negative impressions of the Church that they have. However, they are very even-handed. I would not classify any of these folks as anti-Mormon.

why me has always been a great barometer for kindness, fairness, and wisdom for me, so long as I remember which side of the meter he resides on. It's really not that difficult to do.