Revision to my MDD comments

[_Kishkumen]

A lame sports team can still have cool players and cool fans. I say MDDB is lame. I stand by my judgment.

[_Tobin]

The Church can trounce that move, though, by denying a temple recommend. Like it or not, that is something that is important within the LDS community.

Not really. I'd have no problem getting a temple recommend and I drink half a glass of red wine per day (for health reasons) and don't pay tithing. I donate to charity instead and do not believe TSM is inspired. I can easily answer the temple recommend questions with the pat 'Yes' with understood qualifications because I believe I'm doing the right thing by not supporting the organization in its apostasy. And would feel perfectly fine in the temple, even though it severely needs to be overhauled.

[_Kishkumen]

Not really. I'd have no problem getting a temple recommend and I drink half a glass of red wine per day (for health reasons) and don't pay tithing. I donate to charity instead and do not believe TSM is inspired. I can easily answer the temple recommend questions with the pat 'Yes' with understood qualifications because I believe I'm doing the right thing by not supporting the organization in its apostasy. And would feel perfectly fine in the temple, even though it severely needs to be overhauled.

I like the cut of your jib.

[_harmony]

Obviously more important than standing up for the equal rights of gay people. If you pay tithing you are supporting homophobia in the Church.

If you had a gay son or daughter how would you explain to them why having a temple recommend is more important than standing up for their right to be treated equally? Personally, I wouldn't be able to look them in the eye.

I doubt any gay child of mine would expect me to give up my TR in support. And since I have no gay children, it's a moot point.

Strict homophobia is only a bad thing, if you're on the other side of the fence. So the vast majority of LDS members feel quite comfortable in their homophobia. Even though a few of the more liberal LDS may lean towards the other direction, as a norm, they aren't vocal or publically supportive.

Good grief, LDS aren't even in favor of the ERA, why would any actively support gay rights, unless they have a personal axe to grind.

I won't be marching in a gay rights parade, even though I am supportive of my gay nephew's choices. It's just not my war.

[_Yoda]

The Church can trounce that move, though, by denying a temple recommend. Like it or not, that is something that is important within the LDS community.

Obviously more important than standing up for the equal rights of gay people. If you pay tithing you are supporting homophobia in the Church.

If you had a gay son or daughter how would you explain to them why having a temple recommend is more important than standing up for their right to be treated equally? Personally, I wouldn't be able to look them in the eye.

That is completely unfair. I know many members who support the equal treatment of gays and are not homophobic. I am one of those members. Simply because I pay tithing does NOT change my views, and I resent the implication. I have two extremely dear friends who are gay. The Unitarian reverend, who recently performed the marriage ceremony for my brother and his new wife, is gay. He did a wonderful job, and I sincerely appreciated his service.

I am a performance artist; I sing, direct, act, and teach. The gay community is a huge patron of the arts. The last thing I would EVER be branded is homophobe. All you have to do is speak with my gay friends and colleagues and they will happily confirm what I am saying.

This is a very personal issue for me. You really hit a nerve.

[_Tobin]

That is completely unfair. I know many members who support the equal treatment of gays and are not homophobic. I am one of those members. Simply because I pay tithing does NOT change my views, and I resent the implication. I have two extremely dear friends who are gay. The Unitarian reverend, who recently performed the marriage ceremony for my brother and his new wife, is gay. He did a wonderful job, and I sincerely appreciated his service.

I am a performance artist; I sing, direct, act, and teach. The gay community is a huge patron of the arts. The last thing I would EVER be branded is homophobe. All you have to do is speak with my gay friends and colleagues and they will happily confirm what I am saying.

This is a very personal issue for me. You really hit a nerve.

I agree with Liz. Just because the Church Corporation has been perverted by certain individuals to attack gays does not mean all members of the Church support that by being part of the Church. That has nothing to do with us and we openly disagree with those individuals that do that.

[_zeezrom]

So what good is a TR for, other than attending weddings, and maintaining family peace?

You are sort of unclean, uncouth, and untouchable without a TR, MCB.

Our EQ Pres used to ask the bishop for an updated list of who doesn't hold a TR. To lose your TR after many years of holding one is quite a shame in the community.

[_harmony]

Our EQ Pres used to ask the bishop for an updated list of who doesn't hold a TR.

WHAT??? and he GAVE it to him?

[_MCB]

That kind of social pressure in itself should be enough to stimulate people to become inactive or even resign. Whose business is it who has a TR or not? It should be between bishop and you.

The more I look, the more I am amazed.

[_harmony]

That kind of social pressure in itself should be enough to stimulate people to become inactive or even resign. Whose business is it who has a TR or not? It should be between bishop and you.

The more I look, the more I am amazed.

No one ever knows, except those who are privy to forbidden information. The average member who hasn't ever been in a leadership position knows none of this stuff.