Church changes wording on new tithing slips

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_son of Ishmael
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Re: Church changes wording on new tithing slips

Post by _son of Ishmael »

lostindc wrote:
son of Ishmael wrote:Assuming you are right, how long before it implodes?


within 30 years.

The younger generations, with easy access to information will be the end of the faith. For example, a missionary finds a prospective member and instead of neighbors warning them of issues, the prospective member fires up their iPad and has easy access to kinderhook plates, Book of Abraham, polyandry, racism, and Will Schryver. This is not an exclusively Mormon phenomenon, other faiths are encountering the same issues.




Well that should be within my lifetime...so here's hoping
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_brade
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Re: Church changes wording on new tithing slips

Post by _brade »

Can you put a note in with the slip saying that this is a donation to the church but that the donation may only be deposited on the condition that it's used for, say, humanitarian aid, and if the recipient cannot guarantee that it will be used for humanitarian aid, then it must be returned?

Are there legal reasons that an organization would have to honor something like that?
_Joseph Antley
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Re: Church changes wording on new tithing slips

Post by _Joseph Antley »

lostindc wrote:Joseph Antley,

Are you still a TBM?


Yes.
"I'd say Joseph, that your anger levels are off the charts. What you are, Joseph, is a bully." - Gadianton
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_Gadianton
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Re: Church changes wording on new tithing slips

Post by _Gadianton »

New wording: “Though reasonable efforts will be made globally to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church’s property and will be used at the Church’s sole discretion to further the Church’s overall mission.”


This is a startling revelation, thank you for bringing it to our attention brother Antley. For years I had trouble understanding why the Church increased its standards for mission attendance. When the costs of missions are fully paid by either the family and/or the Church through donations, what does it matter if missionaries go out who aren't going to convert anybody or who weren't fully worthy? Missions generally convert the missionary, or at least integrate the missionary into LDS tithe-paying adulthood that will soon lock him into a TBM marriage and a life of forced activity, so there is just no upside to turning a mission down if the means to pay exists.

But what if...indeed, what if there were a surplus in operational funds for things like missions? Well, if there's a surplus, and forecasts for the future don't suggest a need any time soon for the money, then why not use the money in an area where there is a shortage, such as for increasing construction costs at City Creek? If I donated ten dollars specifically to feed the hungry, but the hungry were filled after 8 dollars were spent, I suppose if the remaining two dollars were spent on clothing I couldn't complain. Given the Church's knowledge that the world market for LDS theology has matured and the ROI on missionary work is terrible, it would be beneficial to have an even greater surplus in operational funds so that the surplus could be funneled into City Creek where the ROI was expected to be much higher. How do you maximize a budget surplus? tighten down the screws. Every member a janitor, and only the most worthy should go on a mission. Reduce costs, but by all means, toe the line of "be generous in your tithes and offerings" as if budgets are fully being spent, which they are, technically. Of course, in the charity example I gave, if money continued to be spent on clothing or school for the needy, the charity would probably own up and declare the problem of hunger solved, but ask for continued help in these other areas. So why doesn't the Church just own up and declare that they have enough money for missions, building maintenance etc., and ask for donations specifically for the areas they are hurting, such as for building their real estate empire?

Well I think that's obvious. That's why for years they did this without saying anything. Members believe it's important to build temples, keep churches beautiful, send young men on missions, and have crates of BoMs on hand. They have not yet been brainwashed into believing City Creek needs to be built by their tithing. But one thing I'll give the Church credit for, they likely aren't Enron in the sense that they take excessive legal risks, so at a certain point, they may have realized they needed to fully disclose the new plan.

So, Joseph, you might have to pay for City Creek with your donations but the silver lining is that now you can shop there for goods and services at premium prices.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Church changes wording on new tithing slips

Post by _Kishkumen »

Gadianton wrote:So, Joseph, you might have to pay for City Creek with your donations but the silver lining is that now you can shop there for goods and services at premium prices.


Very true. And since they won't allow things like "gay kissing" and the like, he can rest assured that the riffraff won't disturb him in this Disneyland of Mormon Elite Shopping.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_sock puppet
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Re: Church changes wording on new tithing slips

Post by _sock puppet »

Drifting wrote:I think one issue is that the amendment was made quietly, with no announcement. Why?

Indeed, why the change? LDS Church finances are not opened up to the public view. So whatever prompted the change was a voiced concern from someone who does have access to that closed information?

Who? Why now? Has there been a recent new GA assignment for financial overview? Could it be from staff accountants at COB?

I do think the why behind the change and the why now questions are more interesting than the change to greater latitude for the COB to do whatever it wants with each penny donated. The change may be more honest about what has taken place in the past with donations, or it might signal a shift to not wanting the constrictions of eartagged donations and the extra accounting chores that go with eartagged donations.
_sock puppet
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Re: Church changes wording on new tithing slips

Post by _sock puppet »

Kishkumen wrote:
Gadianton wrote:So, Joseph, you might have to pay for City Creek with your donations but the silver lining is that now you can shop there for goods and services at premium prices.


Very true. And since they won't allow things like "gay kissing" and the like, he can rest assured that the riffraff won't disturb him in this Disneyland of Mormon Elite Shopping.

Damn. I wanted to go to City Creek when Joseph Antley was there and kiss him in public! Foiled again by Mormon rules. :evil:
_Kishkumen
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Re: Church changes wording on new tithing slips

Post by _Kishkumen »

sock puppet wrote:Damn. I wanted to go to City Creek when Joseph Antley was there and kiss him in public! Foiled again by Mormon rules. :evil:


Well, even I would find that creepy. The age gap is a little too wide.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Chap
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Re: Church changes wording on new tithing slips

Post by _Chap »

Kishkumen wrote:
Gadianton wrote:So, Joseph, you might have to pay for City Creek with your donations but the silver lining is that now you can shop there for goods and services at premium prices.


Very true. And since they won't allow things like "gay kissing" and the like, he can rest assured that the riffraff won't disturb him in this Disneyland of Mormon Elite Shopping.


Umm ... part of my family is from a culture where men who are close friends or relations kiss when they meet. What if they visit Salt Lake City and happen to run into one another in the Jesus Mall? Will they end up spending a night in the pokey?

EDITED TO ADD:

by the way, Jesus once complained that a man he was visiting did not kiss him:

Luke 7:45

44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.

45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.


What is verse 46 in the Joseph Smith Inspired Translation:

46 And Simon answered him saying, Behold we be met in the KFC in the Mall that thou dost own, and the regulations that thou didst make pertaining thereunto as touching the embracement of men do call for sore affliction of he that kisseth another: wherefore I gave thee no kiss. But meet me outside and thou shalt see what a big smacker I shall lay on thee.
Last edited by Guest on Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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_Kishkumen
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Re: Church changes wording on new tithing slips

Post by _Kishkumen »

Chap wrote:Umm ... part of my family is from a culture where men who are close friends or relations kiss when they meet. What if they visit Salt Lake City and happen to run into one another in the Jesus Mall? Will they end up spending a night in the pokey?


I don't know. There was an incident on that street in SLC that the LDS Church bought from the city in which two guys kissed and were treated a little roughly by LDS Church security. I think they were put on the ground, cuffed, etc. I don't recall all of the details. Crazy stuff.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
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