CONFUSED: Gay, active LDS, married with three kids.. WTF?

[_3sheets2thewind]

Great article isn't it? I've been seeing these miracles happen since the mid 80's when I was assigned as a missionary to specifically help gays back into the Church in southern California. Homosexuality is indeed a mind twisting and crippling lifestyle. Simon, not really being associated with the Church for a long time now, doesn't realize that the leadership already understands that it's not going to happen to everyone but of course it won't be discounted because the ideal is always the goal.

What is the "miracle"? According to you and yours homosexuality is a choice, which presumably anyone can choose to engage in or not choose to engage in. So from the standpoint that homosexuality is a choice, No miracle has occurred here; the person just happened to make a choice you agree with.

So can you please explain what the miracle is?

[_MCB]

I don't see it as a miracle. I suspect that he is not as gay as he thinks he is. It is just that Mormon culture tends to look for gays under every rock and pebble, and then mind-read; to the point that the targeted victim believes what he has been told.

Obsessed, they are!!!!

Anyone who refuses to read Mike Quinn because he is not hetero is almost as sick as BY.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Thinking about this more, I had the following thoughts..

Isn't this the same as saying:

I am sexually attracted to other women, but since I am Mormon and it is a sin to have sex with these other women that I am sexually attracted to and since my wife and I are expected to conceive children, I have sex with just her. But DAMN there are some sexually HOT women in my ward!

I wonder how that would fly with LDS wives.

[_bcspace]

What is the "miracle"? According to you and yours homosexuality is a choice, which presumably anyone can choose to engage in or not choose to engage in.

Sure. There is yet to be any evidence that it's inborn. Wouldn't matter if it were though since we know the Lord gives us weaknesses (Ether 12:27). So one can speak to it from either side.

So from the standpoint that homosexuality is a choice, No miracle has occurred here; the person just happened to make a choice you agree with.

So can you please explain what the miracle is?

At the very least, like many perversions, it is addictive. The steps to overcoming homosexuality are little different than overcoming porn or smoking.

[_Dantana]

And there are those in the middle who have different proportions of both.

What about these guys on the bubble.....are they making choices? At what point/level of (allele) is the person responsible for their actions?
I guess this could be a question for both sides.
Bc, is Charles Whitman responsible for his actions.....or does the brain tumor get him off the hook? Simon, If a person has a hetero level of (allele) yet nurture influences his choice, which camp would one put him in?

[_Simon Southerton]

Sure. There is yet to be any evidence that it's inborn.

BYU biology professor Bill Bradshaw has provided abundant evidence that sexual orientation is largely inborn. There is clearly no evidence that you would bother reading about or acknowledging.

Wouldn't matter if it were though since we know the Lord gives us weaknesses (Ether 12:27).

Referencing invented scripture hardly bolsters your position here.

[_Samantabhadra]

BYU biology professor Bill Bradshaw has provided abundant evidence that sexual orientation is largely inborn.

You're probably right but my understanding was that the relationship between specific genes/gene sequences and specific traits like sexual orientation are poorly or not at all understood. Please elaborate?

[_3sheets2thewind]

What is the "miracle"? According to you and yours homosexuality is a choice, which presumably anyone can choose to engage in or not choose to engage in.

Sure. There is yet to be any evidence that it's inborn. Wouldn't matter if it were though since we know the Lord gives us weaknesses (Ether 12:27). So one can speak to it from either side.

So from the standpoint that homosexuality is a choice, No miracle has occurred here; the person just happened to make a choice you agree with.

So can you please explain what the miracle is?

At the very least, like many perversions, it is addictive. The steps to overcoming homosexuality are little different than overcoming porn or smoking.

nothing you posted addresses what the "miracle" is. the question still stands what is the miracle you are referring too. And the "miracle" must by definition be something unexplainable by secular knowledge.

[_Fiannan]

BYU biology professor Bill Bradshaw has provided abundant evidence that sexual orientation is largely inborn. There is clearly no evidence that you would bother reading about or acknowledging.

Yeah right. There is probably more evidence that Freud's hypothesis of the dominering mother and passive father contributing to homosexuality than the stuff Bradshaw brings up. For instance:

According to a study on handedness in the Psychological Bulletin, homosexuals are more likely to be left-handed than heterosexuals, he said.

"There is a clear correlation between homosexuality and non-right-handedness," Bradshaw said.

Bradshaw said statistics show that homosexual individuals have a 39 percent greater probability of being left-handed than right-handed.

Other studies he cited said that homosexual men go through puberty significantly earlier than heterosexual men, homosexuality in men is linked with having at least two or three older brothers and finger length in homosexual women is increasingly masculineized.

http://newsnet.BYU.edu/story.cfm/49488

Okay, so without asking for the sample sizes of the research he might fall back on I would ask what causes a correlation between being left handed and being homosexual. If a child is forced to use their right hand might that cause them to go straight rather than gay? Give me a break.

As for puperty, that generally is influenced by factors such as affluence/nutrition. It can even be linked to zinc as a study I read a while back said that Iranian boys go through puberty later than average due to a lack of zinc in their diet. I think it is safe to say that the people you see in gay parades are more likely to come from upper middle class or rich backgrounds. Wonder why that is.

As for women with more testosterone (the whole ring fnger thing) I have known women who have taken testosterone to boost their athletic abilities and none of them have reported getting more turned on in the women's shower room. More testosterone in a man or woman is likely to be associated with a higher sex drive and more competitive nature but that does not correlate to anything that would turn a woman more lesbian unless she is more likely to explore and experiment.

[_Simon Southerton]

BYU biology professor Bill Bradshaw has provided abundant evidence that sexual orientation is largely inborn.

You're probably right but my understanding was that the relationship between specific genes/gene sequences and specific traits like sexual orientation are poorly or not at all understood. Please elaborate?

I think we would all agree that human height is strongly influenced by genetics/genes. Tall parents usually have tall children and short parents shorter children. That must be because of the genes they pass on to their children. However, identifying the genes/gene sequences that control something as simple as human height has been very challenging. In fact, only a few years ago we hardly knew any of those genes. However, in the last couple of years many of the genes controlling height (each of small individual effect) have been identified.

Identical twins studies (and other areas of research) have proven conclusively that there is significant genetic control of sexual orientation. It may be as large as 30-50%. But just because we can't point our finger at a list of controlling genes doesn't mean it isn't under strong genetic control, as the human height studies have demonstrated. It is very likely that in the next few years many of the genes contributing to sexual orientation will be identified. It is also known that the foetal and early childhood environment strongly influence sexual orientation. These influences (genes and early environment) are beyond the control of the individual and are effectively inborn.