Going About Secretly to Destroy the Church

[Guest]

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[_Drifting]

As long as certain parties are busy notifying Mormons to the existence, if not the identity, of members in their midst going about secretly to destroy the church, I thought it might be fun to see how much headway we can make along that front.

If there is any interest among church-going members of the board, I propose we reconoitter in advance some thought-provoking issues and questions that could be raised in the upcoming Sunday school class, based on that week's reading of the Book of Mormon, and then return and report as to the results.

Any interest?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Count me in, but we did Alma up to Chapter 9 last Sunday.

[_Yoda]

Consig, what about those of us who are in Primary and other auxilliaries?

[_Drifting]

Consig, what about those of us who are in Primary and other auxilliaries?

We could send you a newsletter!!!

[_Yoda]

Consig, what about those of us who are in Primary and other auxilliaries?

We could send you a newsletter!!!

LOL! Yes, please return and report....
Is there some type of music lesson I can throw at the kids that would fit into this discussion?

[_consiglieri]

I wanted to be clear that my goal in trying to do this was not to ask questions with the aim of destroying the faith of other members, but rather asking hopefully thought-provoking questions based upon the text itself under consideration. The thread title may have implied otherwise, but that was more along the lines of a notable quotable than my real intent.

For example, in reviewing Alma 1 today, the following occurred to me:

Nehor is described as “bearing down against the church.” (1:3) This is an interesting phrase (“bearing down”) as it occurs at only one other point in all the standard works, and it is not long afterward in Alma 4:19, where Alma decides he has to go out and preach to his people, the Nephites, “bearing down in pure testimony against them.” It seems likely this phrase is used in order to draw a parallel between the two activities, Nehor “bearing down” against the church to its destruction, and Alma “bearing down” against the church to try to avoid its destruction. They both bear down against the church, but to different ends.

The question that might be asked based on this is simply why is it that the same phrase is used to describe Nehor's preaching and that of Alma?

On another front, Alma 3 takes a break between the two Amlicite battles to discourse at length on the meaning of the curse on the Lamanites and the mark that is the sign of the curse. From this, I have noted the following:

In chapter 3, we have a lengthy discussion about the curse on the Lamanites and the mark. The mark seems to be the sign of the curse, and the sign was put on the Lamanites (and whoever rebels against the Nephites) in order that the Nephites can know who they are and not mix with them and bring the same curse upon their lineage. (As if they couldn’t tell by the way they acted—like we have to figure things out nowadays.)

The author makes a lot of the fact that the Amlicites had marked themselves with a red dot in their forehead, and tells us this is the same thing the Lamanites did. The irony is noted that the Amlicites marked themselves in accordance with the word of God, not even knowing what they were doing.

From all the talk of dark skins and cursing, one could get the idea that this curse went down in lineage, but it seems that here the Book of Mormon wants to talk about the curse as a matter of disposition and not of lineage.

Those who agree with the Nephites are numbered among the Nephites. Those who agree with the Lamanites are not numbered among the Nephites. The curse follows belief and alignment rather than lineage. To put a fine point on it, the Book of Mormon says, “Now I would that ye should see that they brought upon themselves this curse; and even so doth every man that is cursed bring upon himself his own condemnation.” (3:19)

This is important. Here the Book of Mormon is clear that a man must answer for their own acts; that curses do not descend upon people just because of their parents. It still doesn’t entirely shake the racism inherent in the “dark skins” passages as they apply to the Lamanites, but I think it does put it more in context.

Finally, this lengthy tangent on the nature of the curse and the sign is wedged into the narrative of the two battles with the Amlicites; the first is narrated before the tangent, and the second battle comes right after the tangent, and finishes off chapter 3. At the end of chapter 3, it repeats the theme of a person being accountable for their own actions, talking about all the souls that were sent to the eternal world and judged “according to the spirit which they listed to obey, whether it be a good spirit or a bad one.” (3:26) This is interesting not only because it places responsibility squarely on each individual, but also because the choice of wording; that there are good spirits and bad spirits. If there were only one of each, then the word “the” would be used instead of “a,” Indeed Amulek will progress to the idea of their being only one or the other in Alma 34, where he talks about either subjecting yourself to “the spirit of the devil” or “the Spirit of the Lord.” (34:35) This sounds very much like a different view of things between Amulek and the passage in Alma 3. Indeed, this is another almost completely disregarded theme in the Book of Mormon, dealing with what spirit one follows. King Benjamin mentions it, and I think there are other places, as well. Maybe I should look those up some time.

The mind fairly reels with interesting questions that could be raised from this chapter alone, one of which might be why a mark was necessary to tell believers from non-believers in Book of Mormon times when we are expected to figure it out for ourselves today? It doesn't seem like a difficult task.

At any rate, I will keep trying to play catch-up in case we get to the point where we are sufficiently coordinated and sufficiently interested to try this plan out.

At the least, it is a fun idea, I think.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_harmony]

The mind fairly reels with interesting questions that could be raised from this chapter alone, one of which might be why a mark was necessary to tell believers from non-believers in Book of Mormon times when we are expected to figure it out for ourselves today? It doesn't seem like a difficult task.

All they need to do is ask Will. He will tell them who is a nonbeliever.

[_consiglieri]

So Will has effectively become the mark of Cain?

Interesting idea . . .

I guess the Book of Mormon is right that every man that is cursed brings upon himself his own condemnation.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri