FBI Sexual Predator Profile on Joseph Smith?

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Lucretia MacEvil
_Emeritus
Posts: 1558
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:01 am

Re: FBI Sexual Predator Profile on Joseph Smith?

Post by _Lucretia MacEvil »

Tobin wrote:I don't know that Joseph Smith was completely devoid of psychosis. Given the stresses and events of his life (and his statements on occasions), I often consider that he did suffer from one, if not more, conditions.


His childhood experience with leg surgery is enough to explain a lot of mental problems. That was a terrible, terrible event.
The person who is certain and who claims divine warrant for his certainty belongs now to the infancy of our species. Christopher Hitchens

Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. Frater
_Lucretia MacEvil
_Emeritus
Posts: 1558
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:01 am

Re: FBI Sexual Predator Profile on Joseph Smith?

Post by _Lucretia MacEvil »

Quasimodo wrote:Really? I think that if the word 'sociopath' existed in the 1840's the dictionary would have printed a lithograph of Joseph Smith in it's definition.

Here's a list of sociopathic behaviors:

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

Joseph Smith exemplifies every one. A text book case.

I think narcissism is one aspect of sociopathic behavior.


Interesting list and I see what you mean. Maybe narcissism is a subset of sociopath or there is overlap, but he also clearly displays narcissism beyond the benign. Again, my disclaimer, I'm just a wanna-be psychiatrist.
The person who is certain and who claims divine warrant for his certainty belongs now to the infancy of our species. Christopher Hitchens

Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. Frater
_Hasa Diga Eebowai
_Emeritus
Posts: 2390
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 8:57 am

Re: -

Post by _Hasa Diga Eebowai »

-
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_Nightlion
_Emeritus
Posts: 9899
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 8:11 pm

Re: FBI Sexual Predator Profile on Joseph Smith?

Post by _Nightlion »

Quasimodo wrote:
Lucretia MacEvil wrote:
Joseph had obvious sociopathic tendencies, but I still say his predominant mental problem was narcissism.


Really? I think that if the word 'sociopath' existed in the 1840's the dictionary would have printed a lithograph of Joseph Smith in it's definition.

Here's a list of sociopathic behaviors:

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

Joseph Smith exemplifies every one. A text book case.

I think narcissism is one aspect of sociopathic behavior.


OH MAN!!
Everyone? That shoots your objectivity in the foot. They only ones that you guy can make fit are the ones where you deny God and his power with regards to Joseph being a prophet.

A prophet to you fits some in your eyes, Joseph or anyone else.

Joseph did not lack empathy. Get over it, he was no sociopath.

Neither was he ever narcissistic. Hell, has anyone here lived with a real narcissist? I grew up with two narcissistic parents. Both were locked in emotionally at the age of about six years old. Joseph was not even slightly narcissistic. You're just juggling accusations.

The chief thing with a narcissistic personality is that they blame others and hold onto resentments. I do not say that on the authority of me being a clinician. But having lived amongst them. Sort of like how everyone on this board blames Joseph for not converting them sufficiently and now they only got the flames to look forward to. Not his fault. All you got to do is want to know God and forsake the world to do it. But NOOOOOOOOOOOO!
You can leave Joseph out of it entirely. I did. Never even thought about him until I had to stand up on my mission and give a testimony that would pass muster. My conversion was between me and my Maker. Done.
The Apocalrock Manifesto and Wonders of Eternity: New Mormon Theology
https://www.docdroid.net/KDt8RNP/the-apocalrock-manifesto.pdf
https://www.docdroid.net/IEJ3KJh/wonders-of-eternity-2009.pdf
My YouTube videos:HERE
_Quasimodo
_Emeritus
Posts: 11784
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:11 am

Re: FBI Sexual Predator Profile on Joseph Smith?

Post by _Quasimodo »

Nightlion wrote:OH MAN!!
Everyone? That shoots your objectivity in the foot. They only ones that you guy can make fit are the ones where you deny God and his power with regards to Joseph being a prophet.


Hi Night!

Sorry old pal, the clear history stands against you on this one. If Joseph Smith was alive today and your good friend he would be asking to borrow money and hitting on your wife behind your back. The sort of friend you are best to do without.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_Nightlion
_Emeritus
Posts: 9899
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 8:11 pm

Re: FBI Sexual Predator Profile on Joseph Smith?

Post by _Nightlion »

son of Ishmael wrote:
“First off, nobody understand Joseph Smith period unless they first become a born again of fire and of the Holy Ghost prophet like Joseph Smith.” – Horse dung

You are the one who started this post wondering if an FBI profiler “could read through the Documented Church History or Teachings of The Prophet Joseph Smith and tell us if Joseph Smith fits the profile of a sexual predator” but I guess you would not believe that profiler’s assessment unless he passed your sanctimonious test of whether or not he/she had been properly born again of fire and the holy ghost.
I stated in my unqualified opinion that he was not a sexual predator but that he allowed the power to get to him. You know that whole “We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion…” thing.

I never stated that he made the other men watch. That would have been way too gross even for him but the fact is (check familysearch.org) that Joseph Smith married women that were already married to other men:

Lucinda Morgan Harris wife of George W. Harris
Zina Huntington Jacobs wife of Henry Jacobs
Presendia Huntington Buell wife of Norman Buell
Sylvia Sessions Lyon wife of Windsor Lyon
Mary Rollins Lightener wife of Adam Lightner
Patty Bartlett Sessions wife of David Sessions
Marinda Johnson Hyde wife of Orson Hyde
Elizabeth Davis Durfee wife of Jabez Durfee
Sarah Kingsley Cleveland wife of John Cleveland
Ruth Vose Sayers wife of Edward Sayers
Elvira Cowles Holmes wife of Jonathan Holmes

There has been no scriptural evidence that God ever condoned the taking of another mens’ wives that I know of.
Of course Joseph Smith denied all of this all the way up to his death. I guess it is ok for a prophet to lie even though the church expects its members to be honest in all things:

“There are many other forms of lying. When we speak untruths, we are guilty of lying. We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth. Whenever we lead people in any way to believe something that is not true, we are not being honest.” (Gospel Principles Chapter 31)

But since you are such a close personal friend of Joseph Smith you are ok with his lying about his polygamy and polyandry.


I did not expect a profile to understand Joseph but eliminate him from consideration. Of course.

As I see now see it Joseph was desperate about there not being a Zion. The people were not going to get it and he knew that Zion would have wait until we got to the other side of our modern age of Satan's lying wonders before the Lord gathers the scattered remnants when the Lord would bring forth his own Zion. What was needed was for the priesthood to continue up to that day in some fashion. Polygamy and the strong delusion (that's a big lie folks) of building your own Godhood Kingdom was called for to galvanized the Church to stand apart from the world long enough for faith to manifest near the transition stage. (today). I am that faith.

For Joseph told Brigham to precisely settle the saints in front of The Apocalrock for the Strange Act to play out in its time. I called forth the revelation of The Apocalrock in my desire to call forth Zion. It is the first act.

If you don't like it you can lump it. I have not finished calling forth Zion from its hiding place.
The third witness that the LDS Church is fallen in the dust of apostasy is the test of The Book of Abraham which is killing off the lingering faith of the LDS like a fungicide. Good riddance. Let them repudiate Zion all the more and go forward in faith to their reward. NOT!

So yeah. Everything that the Lord was doing the last couple of years of Joseph's life was setting up the lies, the strong delusion because the people did not love the truth, (ZIon) and had pleasure in unrighteousness, (the world).

For how can the Lord SEND them anything without a sender, Joseph the Prophet.
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


The world still thinks that this scripture is yet to be fulfilled. Fools and slow to believe.

Who got the truth right before the day of Christ was at hand? (now).....the Mormons.
What truth did they not love?.............Zion by the power of the real gospel.
What lie did they believe? .........that they were going to become Gods to their own dominions and that included polygamy, if not now anymore, well, eventually, eventually.
How did that lie damn them?......it kept them from getting the gospel of Zion because they were fixated beyond the mark but kept themselves apart from the world in their oddity.

Joseph was setting them up so that the gospel and the Church would not be absorbed back into the world and utterly lost after he was gone. And it would have if these strong measures had not been taken. It was never in Joseph's heart to live polygamy. He loathed the idea and was humiliated by it. I know his heart. But he had to finish his preparations to come off triumphant in the end. For the heirs of Zion will rise up and call Joseph blessed. The return of the City of Enoch will call Joseph blessed as will those who smite the earth and the rocks and ice flow down at their presence call Joseph blessed. For the faith to call forth Zion is found on earth because of what Joseph Smith did. Otherwise the earth is utterly wasted at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Yeah, come Lord Jesus.

If I were not in your midst to aid and counsel you, the devil would overcome you.
Joseph Smith
May 126, 1842 (DHC 5:19-21)
The Apocalrock Manifesto and Wonders of Eternity: New Mormon Theology
https://www.docdroid.net/KDt8RNP/the-apocalrock-manifesto.pdf
https://www.docdroid.net/IEJ3KJh/wonders-of-eternity-2009.pdf
My YouTube videos:HERE
_Nightlion
_Emeritus
Posts: 9899
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 8:11 pm

Re: FBI Sexual Predator Profile on Joseph Smith?

Post by _Nightlion »

Quasimodo wrote:
Nightlion wrote:OH MAN!!
Everyone? That shoots your objectivity in the foot. They only ones that you guy can make fit are the ones where you deny God and his power with regards to Joseph being a prophet.


Hi Night!

Sorry old pal, the clear history stands against you on this one. If Joseph Smith was alive today and your good friend he would be asking to borrow money and hitting on your wife behind your back. The sort of friend you are best to do without.


Ding oh ding yon peal of doom
Late is thy hour a bride with no groom
Trust science reasons to save your day
Off to the cliffs now and fly fly away
(c) 2012 all rights reserved

May be a social poet out on my own path
But that don't make me no sociopath.
The Apocalrock Manifesto and Wonders of Eternity: New Mormon Theology
https://www.docdroid.net/KDt8RNP/the-apocalrock-manifesto.pdf
https://www.docdroid.net/IEJ3KJh/wonders-of-eternity-2009.pdf
My YouTube videos:HERE
_Nightlion
_Emeritus
Posts: 9899
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 8:11 pm

Re: FBI Sexual Predator Profile on Joseph Smith?

Post by _Nightlion »

Lucretia MacEvil wrote:
Tobin wrote:I don't know that Joseph Smith was completely devoid of psychosis. Given the stresses and events of his life (and his statements on occasions), I often consider that he did suffer from one, if not more, conditions.


His childhood experience with leg surgery is enough to explain a lot of mental problems. That was a terrible, terrible event.


Joseph was loved and adored by everyone in his family. Such is not the stuff of crazy.
What kid is trusted as much as Joseph was? Hello!
The Apocalrock Manifesto and Wonders of Eternity: New Mormon Theology
https://www.docdroid.net/KDt8RNP/the-apocalrock-manifesto.pdf
https://www.docdroid.net/IEJ3KJh/wonders-of-eternity-2009.pdf
My YouTube videos:HERE
_Nightlion
_Emeritus
Posts: 9899
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 8:11 pm

Re: FBI Sexual Predator Profile on Joseph Smith?

Post by _Nightlion »

Lucretia MacEvil wrote:
And since you are apparently the only one sufficiently advanced spiritually to be able to see all this, God and Joseph did all this just for you! Are you possibly getting off on a little power trip of your own?


It was never intended that I become the sole survivor.
From my first spiritual breath the welfare of everyone else has never left me.
Either I really got no damn charisma or people just don't want no stinking prophet.
It has taken 180 years to finally shake off the last one. lol
The Apocalrock Manifesto and Wonders of Eternity: New Mormon Theology
https://www.docdroid.net/KDt8RNP/the-apocalrock-manifesto.pdf
https://www.docdroid.net/IEJ3KJh/wonders-of-eternity-2009.pdf
My YouTube videos:HERE
_Tobin
_Emeritus
Posts: 8417
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:01 pm

Re: FBI Sexual Predator Profile on Joseph Smith?

Post by _Tobin »

Nightlion wrote:
Lucretia MacEvil wrote:And since you are apparently the only one sufficiently advanced spiritually to be able to see all this, God and Joseph did all this just for you! Are you possibly getting off on a little power trip of your own?

It was never intended that I become the sole survivor.
From my first spiritual breath the welfare of everyone else has never left me.
Either I really got no damn charisma or people just don't want no stinking prophet.
It has taken 180 years to finally shake off the last one. lol
You need to open your mind to more prophets than that Nightlion. Martin Luther King, Jr and Gandhi were both excellent prophets and had a lot of remarkable things to say that is worth study.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Post Reply