What do you know is true?

[_KevinSim]

How do your three conclusions follow from your four assumptions?

After having given the matter a great deal of thought, I have come to the conclusion that if someone asks God a direct question, ready to base the whole rest of that someone's life on whatever answer God provides, and can't count on God giving that someone a direct yes or no answer to that question, then there is no way in the world that that someone can ever know the will of God in her/his life with any degree of certainty.

One of my assumptions was that God wants us to know God's will. Therefore I conclude that if someone asks God a direct question in the mentioned manner, God will provide that someone with an answer s/he can count on.

I put this method to work in Autumn 1976, during my senior year in high school. My question was whether or not the LDS Church is true. God answered in the affirmative. The LDS Church teaches that Jesus is the Christ, that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and that Thomas Monson is currently a prophet of God; so I conclude that all of those three teachings are true.

[_Nightlion]

How do your three conclusions follow from your four assumptions?

After having given the matter a great deal of thought, I have come to the conclusion that if someone asks God a direct question, ready to base the whole rest of that someone's life on whatever answer God provides, and can't count on God giving that someone a direct yes or no answer to that question, then there is no way in the world that that someone can ever know the will of God in her/his life with any degree of certainty.

One of my assumptions was that God wants us to know God's will. Therefore I conclude that if someone asks God a direct question in the mentioned manner, God will provide that someone with an answer s/he can count on.

I put this method to work in Autumn 1976, during my senior year in high school. My question was whether or not the LDS Church is true. God answered in the affirmative. The LDS Church teaches that Jesus is the Christ, that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and that Thomas Monson is currently a prophet of God; so I conclude that all of those three teachings are true.

Let me see if I get this right. In High School you gave a great deal of thought to your first assumptions and figured God must answer. Got an answer from God that the LDS Church was true....yada yada yada....and now in 2012 you have fallen back to assuming that there is a God. Right?

The first answer from God carried nothing that put God past an assumption and to a fact?
Or have you lost faith and returned to assuming God exists and therefore yada yada yada?

If your first encounter with God was not all that convincing how can you be certain of the answer? I smell a foul smell here. Care at all to investigate?

Did you take no thought but to ask.........well, no, you said that you gave it a lot of thought and therefore you studied it out in your mind.

Wait a second that protocol is ONLY for those who have entered in at the gate and stand upon the rock of Christ, having been adopted according to his grace having been visited of the promise of the Father and truly wrought upon and cleansed by the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.

I figure from all your assuming about God existence that KNOWING the Lord which is the earnest of salvation and certain knowledge that God lives and is just and true, having worked a new creation upon you having you partake of the heavenly gift and been witness in your inward parts of his marvelous power and grace in conceiving you his son leaving you a new man in Christ alive in varied gifts and above all a certain knowledge of God as they were Anciently want to call the entire experience.........to know the Lord.

This is strictly in the Biblical sense of knowing. An intimate exchange has taken place where a conception is completed and brought forth a new creature. Sexual knowing is just mere carnal knowledge, this spiritual intercourse is fully actualizing in a higher state of existence but it remains precisely how the seed of God is produced. Not therefore carnal sex but an infinite and eternal sex without a combination from shared genital exchanges but a higher order of exchange where your offer your whole heart and die to the natural man and God revives you with a new heart and refurbishing your whole might, mind and strength with a forever oneness with God where he is in you and you in him forever and ever.

So if we likened it to carnal sex, spiritual oneness is a connection that never ends, is never climaxed and finished but ongoing as it is eternal and of the duration of eternity.

Is that where you came from to ask God Kevin? Is that oneness with God still in you and do you abide in that moment to moment? Or was it just your arrogance that decided that you deserve that the Most High God and Supreme Being of the Universe owes you an answer because you want one?

I think that someone capable of that degree of presumption will go on to presume an answer as well. Like 1+1=2.

I know God answered me but now I am not sure God is real.............SHUT UP!

[_KevinSim]

Wait a second that protocol is ONLY for those who have entered in at the gate and stand upon the rock of Christ, having been adopted according to his grace having been visited of the promise of the Father and truly wrought upon and cleansed by the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.

Nightlion, why should I believe that "that protocol" is only for those you described?

[_Nightlion]

Wait a second that protocol is ONLY for those who have entered in at the gate and stand upon the rock of Christ, having been adopted according to his grace having been visited of the promise of the Father and truly wrought upon and cleansed by the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.

Nightlion, why should I believe that "that protocol" is only for those you described?

Because the Lord commanded it of that sort. Not for hypocrites who refuse to come unto Christ with full purpose of heart that he might heal them and call them his little ones.

You make the same mistake Christians have made famous down through out all the time since Jesus walked among men in the meridian of time.

I can read.............therefore I am...........equal to what I read.

Very wrong and the proof is in the lack of Zion among men.

It is odd that this mistake occurs almost exclusively in matters of faith and not in science.

Nobody reading a scientific texts presumes to be a scientist because they have read about science. Just like science you got to be competent to work the science in order to be a scientist. In religion you have got to work the religion competently to be raised up of God to a higher state of existence. That is the promised results of working the process of salvation. AMEN.

[_MrStakhanovite]

Well, if you mean that knowing it's true that many things are untrue, I suppose you could be right. I'll have to ponder that before I know it.

Let me cash it out like this Quasi…

In modern epistemology, the standard view of what propositional knowledge is can be described as Justified True Belief (plus some other technical stuff that is not relevant to the thread). You can’t know a proposition to be true unless you actually have reasons and/or evidence (Justification), You can’t really know something that is false (True) and you need to actually believe a proposition to say that you know it (Belief).

So in my opinion, any claim to knowledge is implicitly a claim for truth.

[_LittleNipper]

This seems odd to me. I would have said Jesus is the Christ, or Jesus is my Savior, or Jesus is God; but I would never have said Jesus is the Christ and Billy Graham is his spokesman. And I would never place God and a man on the same plane.

You might not want to make that same point with your Muslim friends.

It is not Moslem "friends" who might flip but "Moslem" extremists who do not seem to care for God, as much as, they do for what they have been fed...

Judges 6:25-31
New International Version (NIV)

25 That same night the Lord said to him, “Take the second bull from your father’s herd, the one seven years old. Tear down your father’s altar to Baal and cut down the Asherah pole beside it. 26 Then build a proper kind of altar to the Lord your God on the top of this height. Using the wood of the Asherah pole that you cut down, offer the second bull as a burnt offering. ”

27 So Gideon took ten of his servants and did as the Lord told him. But because he was afraid of his family and the townspeople, he did it at night rather than in the daytime.

28 In the morning when the people of the town got up, there was Baal’s altar, demolished, with the Asherah pole beside it cut down and the second bull sacrificed on the newly built altar!

29 They asked each other, “Who did this?”

When they carefully investigated, they were told, “Gideon son of Joash did it.”

30 The people of the town demanded of Joash, “Bring out your son. He must die, because he has broken down Baal’s altar and cut down the Asherah pole beside it.”

31 But Joash replied to the hostile crowd around him, “Are you going to plead Baal’s cause? Are you trying to save him? Whoever fights for him shall be put to death by morning! If Baal really is a god, he can defend himself when someone breaks down his altar.”

[_sock puppet]

That the Lord is coming in the clouds of heaven:

Is the white stuff his semen?

ask Mary.

[_Nightlion]

Is the white stuff his semen?

ask Mary.

Oh, I finally get it. I thought Consiglieri was being absurd. The Lord "coming" in the clouds.....semen. Okay I am the dope. You guys, I wonder if you don't just get a little dippy seeing a sign in the heavens that portends a soon to be reality?


D&C 45:39-44
39 And it shall come to pass that he that feareth me shall be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man.
40 And they shall see signs and wonders, for they shall be shown forth in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath.
41 And they shall behold blood, and afire, and vapors of smoke.
42 And before the day of the Lord shall come, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon be turned into blood, and the stars fall from heaven.
43 And the remnant shall be gathered unto this place;
44 And then they shall look for me, and, behold, I will come; and they shall see me in the clouds of heaven, clothed with power and great glory; with all the holy angels; and he that watches not for me shall be cut off.

[_KevinSim]

Because the Lord commanded it of that sort.

Nightlion, why should I believe that the Lord "commanded it of that sort"?

[_Nightlion]

Because the Lord commanded it of that sort.

Nightlion, why should I believe that the Lord "commanded it of that sort"?

Unto whom do you think the revelations were given, unto vagabonds and thieves who seek to enter the kingdom by climbing up another way, to hypocrites, to the unclean, to the uncircumcised of heart?

Like I said already, just because you read it does not mean you are in with it. It has always been so in matters of faith, people think that to assume they are in with God presumptuously is somehow counted for faith. It is not. Faith is to come to the door and knock. Remain steadfastly at the door until it opens. Not to lightly assume that you are already in the door and on the other side in stupid arrogance pretending to great things and embarrassing yourself before God and his holy angels.