Nightlion wrote: You do not think it odd that all of Joseph's family accepted him as a prophet? I think that is singularly the most important miracle of the Restoration. Trust begat trust and so the Church grew.
Or the family was just as delusional as he was…
It is a fact that the best and brightest of the generation of Joseph Smith gathered with him and believed because of the familiarity they owned in the word of God that they read exhaustively. You cannot assume they all were delusional. Since you are forced by your extreme prejudice to make precisely this broad generalization it tosses out the entirety of your analysis on the trash heap.
Nightlion wrote: You do not think it odd that all of Joseph's family accepted him as a prophet? I think that is singularly the most important miracle of the Restoration. Trust begat trust and so the Church grew.
You wont get much support for the notion that a health event caused a mental disorder unless we're talking a frontal lobotomy.
Sure, it's odd that his family accepted him as a prophet. How is that supposed to make him more credible? Kind of makes them less credible, seems to me. As far as that terrible surgery having an effect on a child's mind or not, IMHO it couldn't help but have an effect, and there are echoes of it all through the Book of Mormon. I'm not looking for support here, though. You are. I don't flatter myself that my views are important to anyone's salvation. You do.
I am not ashamed nor will I retreat from demanding that my view are essential for salvation. Excuse my lack of modesty but I owned salvation at a young age and have studied it out with solemn and ponderous thought every day, all day ever since. That is the equivalent of four doctor degrees of discipline and producing a commensurate body of work to exceed any question of credence.
Be interested to no end though to hear of echos in the Book of Mormon of young Joseph Smith's surgery on his leg. Do tell.
Nightlion wrote:It is a fact that the best and brightest of the generation of Joseph Smith gathered with him and believed because of the familiarity they owned in the word of God that they read exhaustively. You cannot assume they all were delusional. Since you are forced by your extreme prejudice to make precisely this broad generalization it tosses out the entirety of your analysis on the trash heap.
"It is a fact that the best and brightest of the generation of Joseph Smith gathered with him..." Just how did you establish this "fact"?
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude
Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits
Nightlion wrote:It is a fact that the best and brightest of the generation of Joseph Smith gathered with him and believed because of the familiarity they owned in the word of God that they read exhaustively. You cannot assume they all were delusional. Since you are forced by your extreme prejudice to make precisely this broad generalization it tosses out the entirety of your analysis on the trash heap.
"It is a fact that the best and brightest of the generation of Joseph Smith gathered with him..." Just how did you establish this "fact"?
Joseph Smith counted among his converts an overwhelming number of Protestant ministers.
You could say that Mormonism did smite the shepherds who then joined the flock.
A detailed study of this fact would be most illuminating. Cross Mormon stats with the general population drift of ministers changing their stripes otherwise. It should prove a real eye opener.
son of Ishmael wrote:So in other words, you are making this up
Why am I making it up? I have read LDS history and am familiar with how often Protestant ministers converted and much of their congregation. It is just another thing wafting on the back burner. Not made up out of whole clothe.
Nightlion wrote:Joseph Smith counted among his converts an overwhelming number of Protestant ministers.
You could say that Mormonism did smite the shepherds who then joined the flock.
A detailed study of this fact would be most illuminating. Cross Mormon stats with the general population drift of ministers changing their stripes otherwise. It should prove a real eye opener.
I don't see how this helps your argument. So what? Big deal. It's not like Protestant ministers were never wrong. And it's not like they were flooding the baptismal lakes and streams. They weren't.
Your use of the word "smite" implies a violence that is neither documented nor helpful.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
son of Ishmael wrote:So in other words, you are making this up
Why am I making it up? I have read LDS history and am familiar with how often Protestant ministers converted and much of their congregation. It is just another thing wafting on the back burner. Not made up out of whole clothe.
How do Protestant ministers = the best and brightest of the generation?
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude
Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits
Nightlion wrote: Why am I making it up? I have read LDS history and am familiar with how often Protestant ministers converted and much of their congregation. It is just another thing wafting on the back burner. Not made up out of whole clothe.
How do Protestant ministers = the best and brightest of the generation?
Of the religious part of it. That is our concern here.
How do Protestant ministers = the best and brightest of the generation?
Of the religious part of it. That is our concern here.
What makes them the best of the religious part? Why not the Catholics especially the Jesuits?
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.