Tobin wrote:I'm sure you are having a good time, but I can't imagine that members of your family enjoy having their faith put up for debate. Having been an ex-mormon/atheist, the solution I suggested was to move away, make new friends, and find other interests to pursue. I believe there are just better things to do (and ways to interface with your family) if you no longer believe in it is all.
You are making some mistaken and immature assumptions. You might want to look inward and check whether you actually understand anything that you think.
The person who is certain and who claims divine warrant for his certainty belongs now to the infancy of our species. Christopher Hitchens
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. Frater
Lucretia MacEvil wrote:You are making some mistaken and immature assumptions. You might want to look inward and check whether you actually understand anything that you think.
Lucretia, for the record I don't think you should move away or leave the LDS Church alone at all. But if you really don't want to put it behind you, then would you be interested in talking with me about why you left the LDS Church? Why did you leave the LDS Church?
Lucretia MacEvil wrote:Why I can't "leave it alone":
1) I have family who keeps it in my face
2) it's a lot more interesting when you start looking at the history, controversies, etc. from the outside.
Perhaps to show a contrast to Tobin, I really don't mind that people who have left the LDS Church can't bring themselves to leave it alone. Quite frankly it gives me an opportunity to talk to them about why they left.
That's refreshing to hear. I don't actually ever run into members who want to discuss the church in any meaningful way.
The person who is certain and who claims divine warrant for his certainty belongs now to the infancy of our species. Christopher Hitchens
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. Frater
Lucretia MacEvil wrote:That's refreshing to hear. I don't actually ever run into members who want to discuss the church in any meaningful way.
Thanks! I personally think that a faith can't be really meaningful to someone unless that someone understands why s/he believes in it. And a really open minded person would be willing to discuss those reasons with other people, and seriously evaluate what those other people have to say.
Tobin wrote:I'm sure you are having a good time, but I can't imagine that members of your family enjoy having their faith put up for debate. Having been an ex-mormon/atheist, the solution I suggested was to move away, make new friends, and find other interests to pursue. I believe there are just better things to do (and ways to interface with your family) if you no longer believe in it is all.
You are making some mistaken and immature assumptions. You might want to look inward and check whether you actually understand anything that you think.
I might surprise you.
Most people get past the "you are sooo immature" argument once they leave high school since it is rather pathetic. It seems you have some vestiges of naïvété and inexperience still clinging to you. That is probably why you "enjoy" berating your close friends and family about a Church you no longer believe in.
Anyway, being able to leave home, make your own life and getting new friends, engaging in new interests, and seeking new experiences is a sign of adulthood. It is obviously not a mistake nor a sign of immaturity. The fact you would characterize it as such demonstrates exactly my point about you.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote:It seems you have some vestiges of naïveté and inexperience still clinging to you. That is probably why you "enjoy" berating your close friends and family about a Church you no longer believe in.
Thank you Tobin for contributing to the point I was trying to make in the OP of this thread.
Tobin wrote:It seems you have some vestiges of naïveté and inexperience still clinging to you. That is probably why you "enjoy" berating your close friends and family about a Church you no longer believe in.
Thank you Tobin for contributing to the point I was trying to make in the OP of this thread.
Why? Do you enjoy berating your close friends and family about Mormonism too? If so, I'd give you exactly the same advice and tell you to get a life and do something else with yourself.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote:Why? Do you enjoy berating your close friends and family about Mormonism too? If so, I'd give you exactly the same advice and tell you to get a life and do something else with yourself.
I love the real double standard here. Apostates are criticized and our sincerity is on trail, but as soon we criticize the church, the church wants respect and civility. I've been asked if I have problems with pornography, but how dare I question the intergrity of Joseph Smith when he marries women who were already married. If the church wants exmormons that are less hostile they need to follow the example of John Dehlin. Otherwise, they will reap what they sow.
Last edited by _Stormy Waters on Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tobin wrote:Why? Do you enjoy berating your close friends and family about Mormonism too? If so, I'd give you exactly the same advice and tell you to get a life and do something else with yourself.
I love the real double standard here. Apostates are criticized and our sincerity is on trail, but as soon we criticize the church, the church wants respect and civility. I've been asked if I have problems with pornography, but how dare I question the intergrity of Joseph Smith when he marries women who were already married. If the church wants exmormons that are less hostile they need to follow the example of John Dehlin. Otherwise, they will reap what they sow.
Not really. Mostly I'm saying you should stop causing problems. If your friends and family are bringing it up, I'd tell them exactly the same thing.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
CASteinman wrote:But everyone who loses faith in the Gospel does indeed sin. It is too bad that saying this is offensive, but it is that way according to the Revelations of God. His desire to impress upon the faithful that this perception is false is, itself, a false teaching.