The impossibility of everyone being rich

[_krose]

Ajax:
You continue to talk about welfare spending. What do you include in the category of "welfare spending" by the federal government, other than the obvious food stamp program?

I saw it but I didn't respond because I didn't see it going anywhere. Granted some of these come under state government, but it's still welfare.

disability
social security
medicare
medicaid
pre-school
public education to a large extent
government subsidized housing
and many more less obvious welfare programs like the government programs to teach illegal immigrants English...

I wonder why you do not include any of these:
- subsidies for oil companies
- subsidies for agricultural companies
- tax breaks for corporations to relocate
- tax deductions for home mortgages
- tax deductions for charitable contributions
- tax exemptions for each child
- tax deductions for business expenses
- tax-exempt status for churches
- no-bid sweetheart deals for military contractors

As noted conservative John Stossel said:

"In America today, the biggest recipients of handouts are not poor people. They're corporations."

[_ajax18]

subsidies for oil companies

never heard of it

subsidies for agricultural companies

a break from the free market started by Roosevelt during the depression, perhaps it was necessary at one time but overall it has proved to be an economic hindrance, so yes I'd agree to calling that welfare, though at least the farmer is doing some kind of work

tax breaks for corporations to relocate

I guess corporations are in short supply or such tax breaks wouldn't exist

tax deductions for home mortgages
- tax deductions for charitable contributions
- tax exemptions for each child
- tax deductions for business expenses

these are tax deductions, not handouts that you get whether you paid taxes or not, that doesn't equate to welfare in my mind

tax-exempt status for churches

no argument on this, but again not taking money from the church as you otherwise would does not equate to handing out free money and resources to people that I would call welfare

no-bid sweetheart deals for military contractors

not familiar with this one, Rome used to pay it's soldiers with lands they conquered. Perhaps this is a carryover of that old system upon which our culture is ultimately based.

[_EAllusion]

Ajax -

You seem to be barely aware of corporate welfare the federal government doles out. The kind of welfare that gets your knickers in a bunch is a pittance compared to it and, as a bonus, the beneficiaries tend to be the underclass rather than the wealthy draining even more money from the rest of us. I'm not sure where you got the idea of our massively corrupt military contractor system being inherited from Rome, but its present form actually developed post WW II. Eisenhower famously warned about it in his military industrial complex speech. It's a consequence of well-connected elites floating between defense contractors, the military, and political positions coupled with pork-barrel politics. The result is contracts at non-competitive rates for unwarranted things being handed out like candy. It's essentially a money grab on our coffers to the tune of billions upon billions. Enough to pay for food stamp aide several times over.

these are tax deductions, not handouts that you get whether you paid taxes or not, that doesn't equate to welfare in my mind

?!

Suppose I create a tax where I take 50% of all wealth. Then, I pile on a bunch of breaks for behavior and people that I like. So, depending on who you are, you might pay anywhere from 5% to the full 50%. Don't you see how this economically punishes those who aren't favored by me and gives a competitive advantage to those who are? That competitive advantage is a huge form of welfare. This is especially true when you consider that I take the taxes I've collected and redistribute it in the form of things like roads that are to the economic benefit of the favored and disfavored alike.

There's a lot of stupid tax policy reform ideas floating out there right now, but I'm excited that gutting the entire exemption system seems to legitimately be on the table.

[_krose]

... I'm excited that gutting the entire exemption system seems to legitimately be on the table.

I'm fully on board with that one. Let's pay the stated tax rate, with no deductions.

[_krose]

So Ajax,

No wonder you can't sleep at night, worrying about the moochers on welfare. According to your definition, pretty much everybody is on it. I'm sure your elderly relatives appreciate your telling them they are on welfare because they use Social Security and Medicare, and that all the kids are in welfare schools.

Of course, food stamps and Medicaid are essentially the only programs that belong on the list. But as a person who appears to be concerned about government spending, this chart should drive you wild. It's a comparison of the top five military spending nations in 2010, in billions of dollars. Enjoy...

[_EAllusion]

Pfft. That chart isn't as awesome as this one.



You'll note that most of the other spenders of consequence are our allies.

[_krose]

And yet...

The right course is to add ships to our Navy, to modernize and add aircraft to our Air Force, to add 100,000 troops to our active-duty personnel, and to strengthen America’s military.

I guess spending more than the rest of the world combined is still not enough.

[_ajax18]

How much does the government spend on military versus welfare?

[_MeDotOrg]

Defense spending is about 23% of current budgets, welfare is about 12%.

[_ajax18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2011.png