If you are already conceding that the 100-page article was specifically "criticizing him," then haven't you already undermined the point of your detective work -- you know, sowing doubt about whether or not there was ad hominem in the article?
So then, in your world, any criticism whatsoever of anyone's ideas, arguments, agenda, position, viewpoint, conduct, or "side" in an ongoing confrontation between values and beliefs is, by definition, ad hominem?
Whoa there. So you reframe what I wrote ("criticizing him") by adding seven additional things I didn't write ("criticism...of...[1] ideas, [2] arguments, [3] agenda, [4] position, [5] viewpoint, [6] conduct, or [7] 'side'")? Seven?
I know you're feeling a little embattled here, but if you are going totally make stuff up, it is pointless for me to engage in the discussion.
I just saw this. I was at the paintball range getting in a couple of games with my team the Danites. God there has to be a ton of money in paintball.
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07
MASH quotes I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it. I avoid church religiously. This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.
Droopy wrote:Yes, the Brethren are really embarrassed and ashamed of NMI:
“FARMS represents the efforts of sincere and dedicated scholars. It has grown to provide strong support and defense of the Church on a professional basis. I wish to express my strong congratulations and appreciation for those who started this effort and who have shepherded it to this point. I see a bright future for this effort now through the university.”
- Gorden B. Hinkley
But Droopy, GBH is not a reliable source. I knew by age 12 growing up Mormon the principles of the King Follett Doctrine. So, why would you quote someone who wasn't sure that the LDS Church taught that, or that anyone really knew about it?
“FARMS represents the efforts of sincere and dedicated scholars. It has grown to provide strong support and defense of the Church on a professional basis. I wish to express my strong congratulations and appreciation for those who started this effort and who have shepherded it to this point. I see a bright future for this effort now through the university.”
This is what Droopy hears:
“FARMS represents the efforts of heroes in the cause of truth who call out evil wherever they suspect it may lurk or in whomever. It has grown to provide strong support and defense of the Church by calling out all evil doers. I wish to express my strong congratulations and appreciation for those who have accused their fellow members after the example of FARMS. I see exaltation for all those who accuse their fellow members of the Church in public.”
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Kishkumen wrote:This is what President Hinckley says:
“FARMS represents the efforts of sincere and dedicated scholars. It has grown to provide strong support and defense of the Church on a professional basis. I wish to express my strong congratulations and appreciation for those who started this effort and who have shepherded it to this point. I see a bright future for this effort now through the university.”
This is what Droopy hears:
“FARMS represents the efforts of heroes in the cause of truth who call out evil wherever they suspect it may lurk or in whomever. It has grown to provide strong support and defense of the Church by calling out all evil doers. I wish to express my strong congratulations and appreciation for those who have accused their fellow members after the example of FARMS. I see exaltation for all those who accuse their fellow members of the Church in public.”
Kishkumen wrote:You know who (other than John Dehlin) is responsible to be concerned about John Dehlin?
His priesthood leaders.
End of story.
Your actual knowledge and comprehension of priesthood law and government is zero, Kishkumen, which means your incompetence in interpreting those laws and covenants in practical application is equally nonexistent.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us
- President Ezra Taft Benson
I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.
According to Dehlin's own account, posted on this very website, He was the one who received advance notice (from an unknown informant - the popularity of this kind of thing seems to be reaching pandemic levels) that a through scholarly paper highly critical of his Mormon Stories website and his general activities was forthcoming. He claims to have spoken to at least one General Authority about the matter, and the narrative that has grown out of this is that from here, the word went to Bradford, and Bradford used this as a pretext to purge and destroy NMI as an apologetic institution, after having spiked the essay in solidarity with Dehlin.
That's how. Haven't you been paying attention?
Last edited by Guest on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us
- President Ezra Taft Benson
I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.
Doctor Scratch wrote:The problem with your hypothesis, Droopy, is that you're assuming that Dehlin--and perhaps Bradford--have got so much power that they're basically able to take over (usurp?) some very powerful forces and figures in the world of LDS apologetics. You just cited the late Pres. Hinckley. So, what--are you arguing that Bradford--who was appointed head of the MI by BYU--is acting out in a "spirit of apostasy"? The bottom line is that your musings here are completely incoherent.
I'm arguing that Bradford has a sheepish and disdainful attitude toward the very concept of academic scholarly apologetics, and that he used this situation as a pretext to purge the NMI of its "orthodox" members.
Nothing incoherent here. What's interesting is that this entire things is grounded in the ancedotal testimony of John Dehlin, and nothing else. We actually don't as yet know what happened, and in what chronological order.
Wild speculation aside, we'll have to wait for some actual facts to come out of the woods here.
But don't let that stop your from conjuring your own scenarios.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us
- President Ezra Taft Benson
I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.
Droopy wrote:Nothing incoherent here. What's interesting is that this entire things is grounded in the ancedotal testimony of John Dehlin, and nothing else. We actually don't as yet know what happened, and in what chronological order.
Wild speculation aside, we'll have to wait for some actual facts to come out of the woods here.
Here's a fact. Scholarly book review publications generally don't review people. They review books.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Droopy wrote:I'm arguing that Bradford has a sheepish and disdainful attitude toward the very concept of academic scholarly apologetics, and that he used this situation as a pretext to purge the NMI of its "orthodox" members.
Nothing incoherent here. What's interesting is that this entire things is grounded in the ancedotal testimony of John Dehlin, and nothing else. We actually don't as yet know what happened, and in what chronological order.
Wild speculation aside, we'll have to wait for some actual facts to come out of the woods here.
But don't let that stop your from conjuring your own scenarios.
Okay, so we shouldn't conjure scenarios, but you can. Got it.