With all due respect to Dehlin, what is the point in staying

[_cwald]

Perhaps I'm stubborn enough right now to say the hell with them...they don't want me...they are going to have to kick me out. And like Dr. Smith said in the MS podcast...I'm going to be an irritant from the inside. Yep, either the church will reform...or they are going to have to kick me out. At least that is how I feel today. Tomorrow? Who knows.

To hell with whom? Who doesn't want you? And how can you be a irritant from the inside if you no longer go to church? I know that selek took you to task on MDD. But this is really confusing.

To hell with my family members and any church leader who excepts me to become a clone and and a pay, pray and obey orthodox member. Many church members says they want me...but what they really want is a damn clone of themselves who believes, thinks and acts like they do. Forget it.

Oh yeah...like I told all you a-holes over at MAD...I went to church YESTERDAY for the first time in a long time...and I was sincere about it. And yeah, fortunately, the members were a hell of lot nicer and understanding the you a-holes at MAD. Thanks a lot MAD a-holes for representing the church in such a divine fashion.

[_cwald]

I don't know where we will be a year from now. I actually ( because I am stubborn and stupid) hold out faith that the church will reform and become relevant to our generation.

What church is relevant for this generation? I see none. This generation wishes to live life without restraints. I see no church advocating this. What reforms do you want the LDS church to make for it to be relevant to you and your generation? And how did you become the spokesperson for your generation when it comes to the LDS church?

I don't have to take your crap over here. Goodnight.

[_Stormy Waters]

What church is relevant for this generation?

How about this for a start?

A church whose founder didn't marry women who were already married. A church whose founder didn't use the promise of salvation to get women to marry him. A church whose founder didn't lie to his congregation about how many wives he had. That alone would be an improvement.

Why don't you crawl back over to MD&D where the MODS can rescue you when you get in over your head you dumbasss.

[_Cylon]

With all due respect to you, Polygamy Porter, I'm pretty sure John Dehlin would never counsel you to stay in the church. He might advise some people to try to do so, but it obviously would have no value to you. Those who stay know the reasons why they do so, and if you can't understand what could make someone do that, then it's not for you, simple as that. Everybody's got to walk their own path.

So, this is the reason why you are no longer active? Really? And why you are so hostile to the church now? Because of your family. There must be another reason.

Wow. You take one little comment where you know nothing about the context, and since you don't understand it, you immediately assume that he can't be telling the truth. Classy.

[_son of Ishmael]

I like what John Larsen says;

"What is good about the church is not unique and what is unique about the church is not good"

[_why me]

And yeah, fortunately, the members were a hell of lot nicer and understanding the you a-holes at MAD. Thanks a lot MAD a-holes for representing the church in such a divine fashion.

There is a positive, so work on that positive. Members were nice to you and very understanding. So, they want you there. No one expects you pay, pray and be a clone. They are just glad that you came to church.

[_Spektical]

What church is relevant for this generation? I see none.

How about a church that focuses entirely on genuine service? Not the make-believe service that goes on in the temples, but rather the kind done by humanitarian groups like the peace corps. The church has an army of young people ready and willing to do something meaningful and worthwhile, and instead they're out selling a bogus message that often includes the marginalization of the "buyer's" culture and traditions.

How about a church that spends less on gaudy buildings and expensive malls and more on clean water projects?

How about a church that isn't apocalyptic and doesn't lend any credibility to the notion that Jesus is going to come back someday and solve our problems? How about a church that is focused on empowering its members to solve the evils of the world right now, instead of teaching that things are just going to get worse in the "last days"?

How about a church that spends less on "traditional marriage" (oh please) legislation and more on providing education for the less advantaged?

Perhaps traditional, fundamental religions aren't too relevant nowadays. It's time for them to adapt into something more useful to society as a whole. The church could be much more relevant, if it wanted to be.

[_why me]

What church is relevant for this generation?

How about this for a start?

A church whose founder didn't marry women who were already married. A church whose founder didn't use the promise of salvation to get women to marry him. A church whose founder didn't lie to his congregation about how many wives he had. That alone would be an improvement.

Why don't you crawl back over to MD&D where the MODS can rescue you when you get in over your head you dumbasss.

I don't think that Joseph's polygamy was a big secret. He would usually ask the family members of the women involved for permission. That would include a lot of people knowing about the practice. Also, when his plural wives died and if they went west after his murder, their tombstone usually had the last name of Smith chiseled into them. However, given the persecution the saints were already experiencing and had experienced, the practice did have to be kept away from the general non-member public surrounding the Mormon community.

[_why me]

What church is relevant for this generation? I see none.

How about a church that focuses entirely on genuine service? Not the make-believe service that goes on in the temples, but rather the kind done by humanitarian groups like the peace corps. The church has an army of young people ready and willing to do something meaningful and worthwhile, and instead they're out selling a bogus message that often includes the marginalization of the "buyer's" culture and traditions.

How about a church that spends less on gaudy buildings and expensive malls and more on clean water projects?

How about a church that isn't apocalyptic and doesn't lend any credibility to the notion that Jesus is going to come back someday and solve our problems? How about a church that is focused on empowering its members to solve the evils of the world right now, instead of teaching that things are just going to get worse in the "last days"?

How about a church that spends less on "traditional marriage" (oh please) legislation and more on providing education for the less advantaged?

All churches need buildings to operate in and they need to keep up with times with technology. Also, churches need to make investments. The LDS church has done quite well and investing in a mall was a good idea. It did provide jobs for thousands of people.

Humanitarian aid is given freely to those in need espcially in case of emergency. And the members do benefit from the church welfare system. If all churches could copy the LDS welfare system, the plight of the poor in the usa will be bettered. Also, the church has just millions of members. Not many. And yet, it is a wealthy church. But it doesn't have hundreds of millions of members paying tithing etc. Should the church now create schools throughout the USA and the world for the least advantaged?

[_why me]

Wow. You take one little comment where you know nothing about the context, and since you don't understand it, you immediately assume that he can't be telling the truth. Classy.

Cwald went to church and was treated nicely by the members last sunday. So, I really don't understand how one can leave a church because of one's immediate family not understanding his inactivity when the members are nice to him.

It is a little confusing.