David B. Speaks

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_Doctor Scratch
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Re: David B. Speaks

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Cicero wrote:Scratch:

Now the Dean has also come out and told David to recant his story. I'm not sure what to make of it. David won't post his sources so at this point who knows whether Pike is lying or not. David may have got it wrong.


You're right--this is rather incredible:

David Bokovoy wrote:Terry Ball, the Dean of Religious Education at BYU has also asked that I correct this information. Here is his comment:


This statement is absolutely untrue. I don’t know where you ever got such information but it is pure fiction. I love the JWOT volume they produced and have given them high praise for it. I have never censured them of the volume. We hold Dana and David in the highest esteem and greatly value their work and depend upon their training and expertise tremendously. Dana is the newly appointed Director of Publications for the RSC and David is serving as the Director of Ancient Scripture Research for the RSC.


Wow! So who is telling the truth: David, or Terry Ball? One simple way to decide is to ask, "Who stands the most to lose here?" If David's remarks are true, they represent a devastating critique on the intellectual life and honesty at BYU.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Garbo
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Re: David B. Speaks

Post by _Garbo »

Wowzer!

This whole thing just gets curiouser and curiouser. I never would have thought BYU was such a soap opera of intrigue, back-stabbing, and back-room dealing.
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_Kishkumen
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Re: David B. Speaks

Post by _Kishkumen »

Bob Loblaw wrote:This isn't a recent development. BYU has been doing this for a long time. George Brimhall was forced to fire three professors for teaching evolution in 1911. Ernest Wilkinson used to pay students to attend classes and report on any subversive teachings. Cecilia Farr and David Knowlton were fired from BYU in 1993, respectively for supporting abortion rights and suggesting that the church do more to protect its missionaries in Latin American Studies. More recently, Eugene England finally gave in to pressure and took at job at UVU.


Hey, Bob-

I was actually thinking of the cyber-aspect of it as the new part. Obviously ideological warfare at the Brigham Young Academy and then BYU have long been part of the story. Thanks for the longview perspective, though.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
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Re: David B. Speaks

Post by _Kishkumen »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Wow! So who is telling the truth: David, or Terry Ball? One simple way to decide is to ask, "Who stands the most to lose here?" If David's remarks are true, they represent a devastating critique on the intellectual life and honesty at BYU.


Well, it seems that everyone is walking on eggshells, afraid to be the next casualty of the cyberwar between BYU factions. I seriously doubt that David made anything up here. It is possible that BYU folk are circling the wagons to prevent further damage. It is all very curious.

I would guess that David is perceived as the ally of the Ousted Maxwell Institute Faction in this, and so these Religious Education folk, the very same crew that did not hire David for reasons related to such issues, are bristling at David's criticism. It seems that many different issues are being dragged into this war of faith in the academy at BYU.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: David B. Speaks

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Kishkumen wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:Wow! So who is telling the truth: David, or Terry Ball? One simple way to decide is to ask, "Who stands the most to lose here?" If David's remarks are true, they represent a devastating critique on the intellectual life and honesty at BYU.


Well, it seems that everyone is walking on eggshells, afraid to be the next casualty of the cyberwar between BYU factions. I seriously doubt that David made anything up here. It is possible that BYU folk are circling the wagons to prevent further damage. It is all very curious.

I would guess that David is perceived as the ally of the Ousted Maxwell Institute Faction in this, and so these Religious Education folk, the very same crew that did not hire David for reasons related to such issues, are bristling at David's criticism. It seems that many different issues are being dragged into this war of faith in the academy at BYU.


Yeah, I think that Terry Ball is lying. If I was David, I would have told Elder Ball to post his own rebuttals. Let him post on MDD and let his BYU enemies collect a dossier on him as well.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_harmony
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Re: David B. Speaks

Post by _harmony »

Oh, what a tangled web...

Trust me, the Lord doesn't need lies.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Dr. Shades
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Re: David B. Speaks

Post by _Dr. Shades »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Now the Dean has also come out and told David to recant his story.
David Bokovoy wrote:Terry Ball, the Dean of Religious Education at BYU has also asked that I correct this information.

I suggest a quid pro quo: David should only "correct" the information if Ball posts the reasons why he didn't hire David.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

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_Kishkumen
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Re: David B. Speaks

Post by _Kishkumen »

Dr. Shades wrote:I suggest a quid pro quo: David should only "correct" the information if Ball posts the reasons why he didn't hire David.


Very clever. The contradiction in the act would be obvious... if he were truthful.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Cicero
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Re: David B. Speaks

Post by _Cicero »

Kishkumen wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:I suggest a quid pro quo: David should only "correct" the information if Ball posts the reasons why he didn't hire David.


Very clever. The contradiction in the act would be obvious... if he were truthful.


I am sure that in some convoluted way the Dean and Pike are being truthful (depends on what the meaning of "is" is and all that). They're either pointing in their minds to a word or two in David's post that they feel they can honestly disagree with . . . or David just got it wrong.

Let's be honest here, none of were in the room (and neither was David for that matter).

Based on David's later posts my sense is that he regrets speaking up at all on this . . .
_Kishkumen
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Re: David B. Speaks

Post by _Kishkumen »

Cicero wrote:I am sure that in some convoluted way the Dean and Pike are being truthful (depends on what the meaning of "is" is and all that). They're either pointing in their minds to a word or two in David's post that they feel they can honestly disagree with . . . or David just got it wrong.

Let's be honest here, none of were in the room (and neither was David for that matter).

Based on David's later posts my sense is that he regrets speaking up at all on this . . .


Sure. One can always quibble with a report and act as though it is a huge distortion. I feel badly for David getting caught in the middle of what has been a tense relationship for a long time now. Campus politics are the worst.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
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