Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.
I married a Brazilian. Her patriarchal blessing says she is of Manasseh, so I guess that means the church believes she is a lamanite.
She is Brazilian so who knows? Indian (maybe), Black(slight possibility), Portuguese (yes), and Jew (yes)....... But 30 years ago my children may have been denied the priesthood. Sobering realization, when you realize one day you have spent so much time, effort, energy and money supporting an organization that would marginalize your children for their "lineage".
I refuse to worship a racist god.
She is Brazilian so who knows? Indian (maybe), Black(slight possibility), Portuguese (yes), and Jew (yes)....... But 30 years ago my children may have been denied the priesthood. Sobering realization, when you realize one day you have spent so much time, effort, energy and money supporting an organization that would marginalize your children for their "lineage".
I refuse to worship a racist god.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.
Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.
Tobin wrote:I strongly disagree. I certainly don't endorse racist or bigoted treatment of anyone in the name of the Church. And I would never allow my funds to go towards such activities. Now, I do not pay tithing to the Church because I feel that it should go to God's purposes and those are not some of them. And volunteering at the Church to help people in need is not helping support an agenda of hate as you characterize it. It is merely helping people in need.LDSToronto wrote:
Yup. It doesn't go down well because it forces people to realize that payment of tithes or support of the church through volunteer efforts is indeed supporting everything the church stands for, no matter how much one protests or picks and chooses.
H.
But you support an organization that endorses or has endorsed racist teachings, regardless of your personal beliefs.
Is that correct?
H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level."
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.
Droopy wrote:According to LDS doctrine, the key is lineage, not race.
Please, professor Droopy, teach me!
As a non-english, I don't see the difference. For me - according to wikipedia and answers - they are something similar category. I dare say they are the same.
I am sorry... Would You so kind to translate these sentences into more understandable, acceptable to miserable non-english speaker?
(OK, I decoded that the word "race" can not be found in Book of Mormon - only the words "nations" and "kindreds" as synonyms of "race"?)
Droopy wrote: Nations, kindreds, tongues, and peoples are mentioned throughout the Book of Mormon on a regular basis, but never the term "race," a concept which it is highly doubtful would have made any sense to the vast majority of peoples (if any) in ancient times, and hence, does not appear in the Book of Mormon.
Droopy wrote:Skin color, in this case, was a symbolic marker, or outward sign of a kind of culture, and when Nephite dissenters began partaking of Lamanite culture, they took on the dress, body adornment, and other attributes of the Lamanites.
Droopy wrote: Their skin color did not change, at this point, but they marked themselves in their foreheads, and altered their appearance in solidarity with their new found "counterculture."
by the way marked foreheads?
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.
cwald wrote:I use to put my tithing in an account...saved for tithing settlement. One day a stranger knocked on my door and asked for work...willing to work for doing anything and any amount....he was desperate. I said I had no money to pay him.
I took his card. I repented. Called him a couple days later. Hired him to do some carpenter work that I was more than capable of doing myself...and paid him 2 grand from my tithing account.
Even though they went after me for my connections with John Dehlin, this is ultimately what the church used in my church discipline interrogations to justify stripping me of my TR and church callings...and putting a sticker on my file as an apostate.
I have not paid tithing since, and don't regret my decision to hire that stranger at all. I only wish I had figured it out sooner.
Do they really put a sticker on your file/ That would be a badge of honor
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude
Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude
Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.
son of Ishmael wrote:Do they really put a sticker on your file...
Now that is a good question.
My BP has insisted on me holding a calling many times the last two years...even appealed the SP decisions and took it to the area GA. The last time...was months ago.
There is certainly a Dehlin paranoia here...and Cache Valley...where this all started.
by the way - John Dehlin lives in Cache Valley/Franklin County...same place as my extended family...my SP brother and bishopric brother.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
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Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.
LDSToronto wrote:But you support an organization that endorses or has endorsed racist teachings, regardless of your personal beliefs.Tobin wrote:I strongly disagree. I certainly don't endorse racist or bigoted treatment of anyone in the name of the Church. And I would never allow my funds to go towards such activities. Now, I do not pay tithing to the Church because I feel that it should go to God's purposes and those are not some of them. And volunteering at the Church to help people in need is not helping support an agenda of hate as you characterize it. It is merely helping people in need.
Is that correct?
H.
The Church is merely a man-made assocation of members. Such organizations can be perverted to teach and promote false and evil doctrines as you noted. It does not mean I endorse those doctrines by being a member of such an assocation, provided that organization can be reformed. Mormonism has been reformed in some ways, and has other ways it needs to be reformed and you can do some good (ie help your fellow man) through such an association. That is a positive influence that I can have upon it and through being a member of it.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.
cwald wrote:I use to put my tithing in an account...saved for tithing settlement. One day a stranger knocked on my door and asked for work...willing to work for doing anything and any amount....he was desperate. I said I had no money to pay him.
I took his card. I repented. Called him a couple days later. Hired him to do some carpenter work that I was more than capable of doing myself...and paid him 2 grand from my tithing account.
Even though they went after me for my connections with John Dehlin, this is ultimately what the church used in my church discipline interrogations to justify stripping me of my TR and church callings...and putting a sticker on my file as an apostate.
I have not paid tithing since, and don't regret my decision to hire that stranger at all. I only wish I had figured it out sooner.
Hi there, Brother cwald!
Thanks again. Your generosity is well remembered. We don't have a whole lot of power---we're awfully good at changing flat tires, though---but you've got our blessing.
As for those who thought this was a poor use of your tithing fund, well, we've got their number, too...
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.
Tobin wrote:LDSToronto wrote:But you support an organization that endorses or has endorsed racist teachings, regardless of your personal beliefs.
Is that correct?
H.
The Church is merely a man-made assocation of members. Such organizations can be perverted to teach and promote false and evil doctrines as you noted. It does not mean I endorse those doctrines by being a member of such an assocation, provided that organization can be reformed. Mormonism has been reformed in some ways, and has other ways it needs to be reformed and you can do some good (ie help your fellow man) through such an association. That is a positive influence that I can have upon it and through being a member of it.
You can do some good via an organization that does not nor has ever promoted racism, yet you choose to do good via an organization that has and in some ways still does promote racism and inequality.
Good luck changing the church.
H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level."
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.
Thanks. And an organization shouldn't be judged on its past if it is willing to reform. Many organizations involved in charitable work today have had questionable practices and teachings. The important question is can the organization be rehabilitated. I think the LDS Church as shown an ability to change and so long as it does and improves, I don't mind being associated with it.LDSToronto wrote:You can do some good via an organization that does not nor has ever promoted racism, yet you choose to do good via an organization that has and in some ways still does promote racism and inequality.Tobin wrote:The Church is merely a man-made assocation of members. Such organizations can be perverted to teach and promote false and evil doctrines as you noted. It does not mean I endorse those doctrines by being a member of such an assocation, provided that organization can be reformed. Mormonism has been reformed in some ways, and has other ways it needs to be reformed and you can do some good (ie help your fellow man) through such an association. That is a positive influence that I can have upon it and through being a member of it.
Good luck changing the church.
H.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.
Tobin wrote:Thanks. And an organization shouldn't be judged on its past if it is willing to reform. Many organizations involved in charitable work today have had questionable practices and teachings. The important question is can the organization be rehabilitated. I think the LDS Church as shown an ability to change and so long as it does and improves, I don't mind being associated with it.LDSToronto wrote:You can do some good via an organization that does not nor has ever promoted racism, yet you choose to do good via an organization that has and in some ways still does promote racism and inequality.
Good luck changing the church.
H.
I see no evidence of change and reform in the LDS church. Nor have I seen an ability of the aforementioned.
H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level."
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir