Falcon A wrote:Does this story originate from Lucy or Joseph? The reference cited by antishock(?) didn't start with "My young precious son, even the Prophet Joseph Smith, told me about the time..." She obviously wasn't there running alongside for the 6 mile round trip, right? To me it's another Joseph Smith fantasy.
Seems that Lucy believed anything Joseph said.
Lucy appears to be the detailed source. The narrative appears in both the Preliminary Manuscript and in the 1853 edition. It's clear from the text that this is not one of the occassions where the 1853 edition is simply inserting Joseph Smith's version of an event. When that happens, the event is usually missing from the Preliminary Manuscript and the 1853 edition begins with words to the effect - I will now quote from my son's version.
How did Lucy know what happened before Joseph Smith arrived back at the house? She doesn't say. She does say that when Joseph Smith had recovered, he related the chase to his father, J. Knight and Stowel who were at the house. This could be the source for her knowledge. She does say that Joseph Smith returned spent and asked that his thumb be pulled back into joint, things about which she could have had direct knowledge.
History of the Church only says people tried to get the plates.
Bushman only cites to Lucy for this event.
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
f course, I'm not a big strapping farm boy like Joseph Smith probably was......
The same Joseph Smith who had leg surgery at age 8 and limped for the rest of his life?
I am a 6'3" 225lbs bodybuilder enthusiast, quite strapping and dashingly handsome if you must know. I cannot run with a 45-60lb weight.
Now, maybe if I had undergone a serious leg surgury that almost resulted in my leg being amputated and had a lifelong limp, then maybe I could run with such weights. I do not know.
I am 6', about 235, and I have lifted weights off and on since I was 15. I am also quite strong, even for a guy over 200 lbs. For example, I usually do my heaviest set on bench press with the 110 or 115 pound dumb bells, etc.
When I was at the gym the other day, I tried to pick up a 50 pound dumb bell and cradle it under my arm like Joseph Smith supposedly did with the Book of Mormon. After about 20 seconds of this, I re-concluded the obvious: neither Joseph Smith nor anyone else with anything other than freakish strength is going to run three miles at top speed with a 50 pound weight cradled under his arm. It's just not going to happen.
I say freakishly strong only because I think that someone like the men on the World's Strongest Man competitions could (possibly) run three miles while cradling a 50 pound weight -- assuming that they could run three miles at top speed in the first place. Anyone short of that -- including some pretty fit athletes -- would probably not be able to do it.
"Joseph Smith was called as a prophet, dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb" -South Park
And don't forget he had to fight off three guys as well. Evidently he disabled all of them so badly that they were unable to continue the pursuit.
The story is way-out ridiculous. It is astonishing that any human being with experience of strenuous physical activity and the ability to think critically has ever heard it without laughing out loud.
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
I don't understand why this would be compelling. The Book of Mormon translation process is clearly a supernatural event, so why isn't a possibility that God blessed Joseph Smith to run fast with the plates or magically changed the properties of the plates so they were light while he ran with them?
robuchan wrote:I don't understand why this would be compelling. The Book of Mormon translation process is clearly a supernatural event, so why isn't a possibility that God blessed Joseph Smith to run fast with the plates or magically changed the properties of the plates so they were light while he ran with them?
Moses and Jesus were in a threesome playing golf one day. Moses pulled up to the tee and drove a long one. The ball landed in the fairway, but rolled directly toward a water hazard. Quickly Moses raised his club, the water parted and it rolled to the other side, safe and sound.
Next, Jesus strolled up to the tee and hit a nice long one directly toward the same water hazard. It landed right in the centre of the pond and kind of hovered over the water. Jesus casually walked out on the pond and chipped the ball onto the green.
The third guy got up and randomly whacked the ball. It headed out over the fence and into oncoming traffic on a nearby street. It bounced off a truck and hit a nearby tree. From there, it bounced onto the roof of a shack close by and rolled down into the gutter, down the drain spout, out onto the fairway and straight toward the aforementioned pond. On the way to the pond, the ball hit a stone and bounced out over the water onto a lily pad, where it rested quietly. Suddenly a very large bullfrog jumped up on a lily pad and snatched the ball into his mouth. Just then, an eagle swooped down and grabbed the frog and flew away. As they passed over the green, the frog squealed with fright and dropped the ball, which bounced right into the cup for a hole in one.
Moses turned to Jesus and said, "I hate playing with your Dad."
******************************************** by the way if robuchan is serious then I shouldn't have made any joke. Either about "Jewish Olympic Swimmer"
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
robuchan wrote:I don't understand why this would be compelling. The Book of Mormon translation process is clearly a supernatural event, so why isn't a possibility that God blessed Joseph Smith to run fast with the plates or magically changed the properties of the plates so they were light while he ran with them?
Moses and Jesus were in a threesome playing golf one day. Moses pulled up to the tee and drove a long one. The ball landed in the fairway, but rolled directly toward a water hazard. Quickly Moses raised his club, the water parted and it rolled to the other side, safe and sound.
Next, Jesus strolled up to the tee and hit a nice long one directly toward the same water hazard. It landed right in the centre of the pond and kind of hovered over the water. Jesus casually walked out on the pond and chipped the ball onto the green.
The third guy got up and randomly whacked the ball. It headed out over the fence and into oncoming traffic on a nearby street. It bounced off a truck and hit a nearby tree. From there, it bounced onto the roof of a shack close by and rolled down into the gutter, down the drain spout, out onto the fairway and straight toward the aforementioned pond. On the way to the pond, the ball hit a stone and bounced out over the water onto a lily pad, where it rested quietly. Suddenly a very large bullfrog jumped up on a lily pad and snatched the ball into his mouth. Just then, an eagle swooped down and grabbed the frog and flew away. As they passed over the green, the frog squealed with fright and dropped the ball, which bounced right into the cup for a hole in one.
Moses turned to Jesus and said, "I hate playing with your Dad."
******************************************** by the way if robuchan is serious then I shouldn't have made any joke. Either about "Jewish Olympic Swimmer"
robuchan wrote:I don't understand why this would be compelling. The Book of Mormon translation process is clearly a supernatural event, so why isn't a possibility that God blessed Joseph Smith to run fast with the plates or magically changed the properties of the plates so they were light while he ran with them?
Sure.
If you're willing to invoke the supernatural, then any statement can possibly be true. Joseph Smith running at top speed carrying 50-200 lbs plates? Why not. Joseph Smith having supernatural plates that apparently fit nicely into his hat, along with a small rock, so he could dictate the Book of Mormon out of his hat? Of course! John Edwards talking to spirits on his TV show and asking (er, I mean the spirits asking) people for money? Okay. The crazy lady on my mission that claimed that demons yelled at her from her television? Sure.
"Joseph Smith was called as a prophet, dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb" -South Park
robuchan wrote:I don't understand why this would be compelling. The Book of Mormon translation process is clearly a supernatural event, so why isn't a possibility that God blessed Joseph Smith to run fast with the plates or magically changed the properties of the plates so they were light while he ran with them?
Sure.
If you're willing to invoke the supernatural, then any statement can possibly be true. Joseph Smith running at top speed carrying 50-200 lbs plates? Why not. Joseph Smith having supernatural plates that apparently fit nicely into his hat, along with a small rock, so he could dictate the Book of Mormon out of his hat? Of course! John Edwards talking to spirits on his TV show and asking (er, I mean the spirits asking) people for money? Okay. The crazy lady on my mission that claimed that demons yelled at her from her television? Sure.
I think Hinckley had the right idea. When we stop referring to him as Joseph Smith, and call him by his real name, "Jesus Smith", then it all falls into place. Yes?
I don't expect to see same-sex marriage in Utah within my lifetime. - Scott Lloyd, Oct 23 2013
