Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

[_RayAgostini]

Will is a pathological liar in a way that is different from apologetic prevarication many here are accustomed to. It will serve us well to be aware of the difference.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

[_Chap]

Will is a pathological liar in a way that is different from apologetic prevarication many here are accustomed to. It will serve us well to be aware of the difference.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

I hate to say this - but just for once I will: read the thread.

If after doing so you have a testimony that Schryver is True, and you are OK with that, no-one is going to come after you with a tyre-lever, promise.

The only likely consequence will be that the weight that other posters accord to your judgement may diminish somewhat. But given your frequently expressed opinion of this board and those who post here (apart from yourself), I'd guess you would have no problem with that.

[_RayAgostini]

I hate to say this - but just for once I will: read the thread.

If after doing so you have a testimony that Schryver is True, and you are OK with that, no-one is going to come after you with a tyre-lever, promise.

The only likely consequence will be that the weight that other posters accord to your judgement may diminish somewhat. But given your frequently expressed opinion of this board and those who post here (apart from yourself), I'd guess you would have no problem with that.

My feeling about this thread is pretty much summed up by Ceeboo:

For the most part (and by design) I have decided to not contribute to these types of threads.

for what it's worth, I will make a brief contribution.

Although I may be dispalying an ignorant, outsider, never-Mo, and/or limited experienced opinion. Here it is anyway.

This attention is highly desired and sought after.
It allows further opportunity to widen the divide that exists.
It is, for several reasons, by design and wanted.
It promotes further reasons to draw thick, clear, and stubborn lines.
It eliminates the soft middle and forces hard sides.
It is calculated, measured, tested, and in my opinion works very well.

Bizarre, waste, and in the end, offers very little value for anyone.

Peace,
Ceeboo

But I'll add my two cents: Will Schryver has been unjustly demonised on this board, to the point you'd think he was an immoral beast unworthy of the company of "decent people", and all based on his message board posts here, and motivated by the fact that he's a "Mormon apologist".

This thread revolts me - to the core, and I have my reasons, which will remain private.

Heap the scorn on by the barrell-load, but I know I can sleep well at night, having not contributed to this awful demonisation of a good man, whose greatest fault is to be a "TBM". I feel sick at heart reading the things said about him here.

[_Dr. Shades]

I feel sick at heart reading the things said about him here.

How do you feel reading the words that he himself wrote as compiled in the opening post?

I'm not trying to bait you into an argument; I'm genuinely curious about your opinion.

[_RayAgostini]

How do you feel reading the words that he himself wrote as compiled in the opening post?

I'm not trying to bait you into an argument; I'm genuinely curious about your opinion.

I'm a cab driver, Shades. Will is a benign pussy in comparison to what I hear everyday, and it's no reflection on his real character.

I love that man better who swears a stream as long as my arm, and administering to the poor and dividing his substance, than the long smooth faced hypocrites. I don't want you to think I am very righteous, for I am not very righteous. God judgeth men according to the light he gives them.

- Words of Joseph Smith, p.204 (18 May 1843)

Does anyone here judge Paul Osborne?

Would they like me to give a sampling of his best quotes? None of which have been seriously challenged by the same people who would make Will an "offender for a word"?

But how could I forget, Paul is an exmo, and his death wishes for present and past leaders are, well, "excusable".

So here I am, trying to defend a good man against charges that he used the C-word, when I freely and liberally use it everyday, and no one counts it as the unpardonable sin.

I must introduce you all to my daughter one day, who would make Rockwell and Will look like Mother Theresa when it comes to "correct language". I think my friends on Facebook got a small taste of her "colourful language".

And no, I don't believe there's a shred of credible evidence that Will used this word against harmony, because it's a shameless and baseless LIE.

So there you have it.

[_Chap]

But I'll add my two cents: Will Schryver has been unjustly demonised on this board, to the point you'd think he was an immoral beast unworthy of the company of "decent people", and all based on his message board posts here, and motivated by the fact that he's a "Mormon apologist".

This thread revolts me - to the core, and I have my reasons, which will remain private.

Heap the scorn on by the barrell-load, but I know I can sleep well at night, having not contributed to this awful demonisation of a good man, whose greatest fault is to be a "TBM". I feel sick at heart reading the things said about him here.

Schryver has deliberately sought the attention he has been given here. He has over and over again added a shower of unpleasant epithets to arguments on this board that could easily have been conducted without them. His metaphors have frequently had clearly obscene implications. He has concentrated his scorn on female posters on this board, with particular attention to their alleged poor morals and lack of sexual attractiveness, and even extended it to the wife of his own Prophet, whom he described as a 'bitch'. I know. I was there. I saw the post go up.

This insulting and obscene tone was consistent and prolonged, all the time accompanied with copious references to his deity and to his religious beliefs. Never in all the time that I was a member of a major religious group have I seen such an unpleasant combination of the sanctimonious and the childishly nasty.

Now he caps it all by claiming that the 'bitch' reference to Emma Smith was never made by him, but was a wicked forgery by apostate mods on this board. I know that not to have been the case, and so must he.

For all I know, Schryver's private life may show him to be a paragon of gentleness, kindness, self-denial and manly virtue. I wouldn't know. But his public persona on this board has been coarse, repellent and (I now have to conclude) terminologically inexact. He needs to think about changing it if he doesn't enjoy the consequences of this.

Maybe if I was a cab-driver I'd see things differently. But hey Ray - you call it from your perspective, and I'll call it from mine. And mine is at least as valid as yours.

[_RayAgostini]

Maybe if I was a cab-driver I'd see things differently. But hey Ray - you call it from your perspective, and I'll call it from mine. And mine is at least as valid as yours.

Yeah, Will once characterised me as a "lone wolf" preying on women, and predicted my untimely death.

Tell me how far I should let my hate barometer go, Chap. Should I join the mob?

Become a Shryver-basher?

What to do?

I'll admit our (Will and myself) mutual attraction - the Book of Mormon.

5 And it speaketh harshly against sin, according to the plainness of the truth; wherefore, no man will be angry at the words which I have written save he shall be of the spirit of the devil. (2 Ne. 33)

I love that book, and yes, maybe that's why I'm so frequently at odds with people like you. You devil!

I wish you no evil, but I pray for more tolerance and acceptance of true believers. I pray that no harm may come to you, nor even Kishkumen But I'm serious.

I love that Book because it reproves and admonishes me to do better; to take stock of my faults, sins, and hypocrisy. It is my personal "Liahona".

Have I borne enough testimony?

Excuse my overuse of the stupid smilies.

[_Bob Loblaw]

Paul O. does not pretend to be anything other than what he is. He can be rude, angry, sarcastic, and profane--and he owns it. Mr. Schryver, on the other hand, is all of those things, plus misogynistic and a stalker--but he denies all of this and claims he's the victim of some demonic conspiracy to silence his unparalleled brilliance. There's no comparison.

[_Chap]

I do agree with you, Ray, that an excess of hostility or anger towards others can sometimes damage the people who are expressing it more than those to whom it is directed.

But I no longer belong to a religion that insists I should turn the other cheek at all times, whatever my inclination. So I am happy to revert to more perennial wisdom, and try to calibrate the nature and degree of my expression to what is appropriate, given the object to which it is directed. In the case of William Schryver, seen as a contributor to this and related discussion boards, I think I have got it about right, assuming I am to continue the pastime of reading such material. Your mileage may differ.

And I certainly do not wish you any harm at all (not that it would have any negative consequences for you if I did).

[_Ceeboo]

Morning Ray (Well, it is morning in my world)

Have I borne enough testimony?

YES!

Peace,
Ceeboo