Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

[_Kishkumen]

My question is this:

How can anyone who does not approve of Schryver's behavior be blamed?

This isn't an anti-Mormon thing so much as an anti-jackass thing. If you spend any time over at MDDB, you will see that plenty of folks over there don't "dig" Schryver. Plenty of apologists don't get his odd behavior, some of these people include BYU faculty.

So, I don't really understand the kind of person who would expend a great deal of effort pursuing the project of exonerating Schryver, when it is obvious that it is his own behavior that put him in this fix, and that, by all rights, it should be a change in that behavior that gets him out.

I get defending Mormonism. I don't really get spending a lot of time defending Will Schryver from Will Schryver by blaming everyone but Will for the fact that he is a jackass.

[_MsJack]

Have you asked Will's wife if she believes he a misogynist?

Has William ever asked my husband if he believes I'm a "liar," "anti-Mormon," and "propagandist"?

[_Eric]

That there is four direct witnesses to what was said, which weighs heavily against yours and Eric's testimony of seeing ... "nothing."

WTF? Unfortunately there are/were not four witnesses to the c-word being written.

But I agree, my testimony of not seeing it means nothing. The testimony of Rollo Tomasi and others, as well as the reasoning I laid out in this thread when it first came up, is why it's clear that Will didn't use that particular word on that occasion.

I guess Kevin can say that this is all because I just don't like harmony, and I guess I could say that this is all because Kevin doesn't like Will.

Or it could be that I just like the truth and don't care which "side" it's coming from or supports.

[_Chap]

That there is four direct witnesses to what was said, which weighs heavily against yours and Eric's testimony of seeing ... "nothing."

WTF? Unfortunately there are/were not four witnesses to the c-word being written.

But I agree, my testimony of not seeing it means nothing. The testimony of Rollo Tomasi and others, as well as the reasoning I laid out in this thread when it first came up, is why it's clear that Will didn't use that particular word on that occasion.

I guess Kevin can say that this is all because I just don't like harmony, and I guess I could say that this is all because Kevin doesn't like Will.

Or it could be that I just like the truth and don't care which "side" it's coming from or supports.

I'm happy with that last statement. It wouldn't surprise me if Schryver had not used the c-word. I'm even happy to proceed on the assumption that he did not, so as to avoid further argument.

That's about the only piece of Schryver misbehavior on this board there is any possible doubt about. As I have said before, I saw the b-word go up in reference to Emma Smith and I remember being surprised at the time.

[_Kishkumen]

I really don't give a crap. One word against a whole string of jackass behaviors and stupid statements. One word.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

That there is four direct witnesses to what was said, which weighs heavily against yours and Eric's testimony of seeing ... "nothing."

WTF? Unfortunately there are/were not four witnesses to the c-word being written.

But I agree, my testimony of not seeing it means nothing. The testimony of Rollo Tomasi and others, as well as the reasoning I laid out in this thread when it first came up, is why it's clear that Will didn't use that particular word on that occasion.

I will repeat that I did not see Will ever use the "c-word" in a post (that doesn't mean he didn't; just that I never saw it). That said, I still believe that Will is an unstable jackass.

[_beastie]

I agree that the attention paid to the c word incident is overblown. I think Will focused on that because, prior to his creative rewriting of history which now includes moderator forgery, it was the only example for which he had a possible "out", plausible deniability, due to the fact that Harmony immediate edited out the word.

Personally, I believe using the c word is completely consistent with the character Will shared on this board, and I've never known Harmony to lie, so I see no reason to disbelieve her now. Others have asserted that they do not remember Will using the word. I consider that less strong evidence than Harmony's memory of actually seeing the word. But, as others have said, it's just one incident among many. Hardly worth the attention it receives.

[_Kevin Graham]

WTF? Unfortunately there are/were not four witnesses to the c-word being written.

Count them. Harmony, Stak, Spurven and me.

But I agree, my testimony of not seeing it means nothing. The testimony of Rollo Tomasi and others, as well as the reasoning I laid out in this thread when it first came up, is why it's clear that Will didn't use that particular word on that occasion.

The reasoning is based mostly on the theory that Rollo wouldn't have overlooked that comment had he read the original post, which is something even Rollo isn't willing to suggest.

In the end, the only reason you two are challenging this is because a well known, proven liar, later said he didn't say it. That's it. A year later and he is still on the forums trying to lie about what he said about Emma Smith, claiming he never called her a champion bitch. Are you guys going to say he's telling the truth about that too? If not, then why?

I guess Kevin can say that this is all because I just don't like harmony, and I guess I could say that this is all because Kevin doesn't like Will.

Our positions aren't comparable. I saw the original post, and I know he said something like that. I also know for a fact, as sure as I'm sitting here, that Will's proposed scenario is bogus. It is something harmony never would have censored. I know harmony didn't edit the post for no good reason. There was a very good reason. It is because Schryver became unhinged and took the insults to a new level. I remember that much.

One doesn't have to dislike Will to see that he has a history of lying. This is something people on both sides of the fence can agree upon.... except you and Ray. And the only common denominator with you two is your resentment of harmony, for whatever reason.

Or it could be that I just like the truth and don't care which "side" it's coming from or supports.

But you're just guessing at what's true and you're letting your feelings towards harmony get in the way. Forget harmony for a second and try to explain why Stak, Spurven and I must also be lying. Do you really think she emailed all three of us that morning before editing the post and said "I'm framing Schryver to prove he hates women... are you guys in?"

This is like throwing blue paint up in the air to prove the sky is blue. Why go through so much trouble to prove what is already obvious to everyone?

[Guest]

He used it. I saw it, too. He spaced it out so it wouldn't be edited.

I'm also guilty of using it, but at least I own it. ;)

- VRDRC

[_Kishkumen]

I can stand as witness to the fact that Kevin Graham has a zero tolerance policy on lying.