Drifting wrote: Whenever I even start to bring a subject up the usual response is "I'm not going to get involved in that, I just know the Church is true" and the conversation is closed.
For instance, when watching a programme on the FLDS I asked a member of the family "I wonder how it was different when Joseph was polygamous?" "Joseph wasn't polygamous." "I'm sure he was, let me just google that. Yep, he had around thirty wives....hang on...it says some of them were married..." "He only married them because their husbands were dead." "Well, it says here that near Y a dozen of them had living husbands at the time he married them...hang on...I thought you said he wasn't polygamous but then you said he only married women who's husbands were dead..." "I'm not going to get involved in that. I know the Church is true" *family member exits the room*
You shouldn't confuse your own ignorance and bearing false witness of the issue with the ignorance of an LDS member who doesn't delve in the scholarship nor anti-mormon perversions of LDS history.
Joseph WAS NOT "polygamous"..... He was only "sealed" to many. He did not live "Polygamy". That is one of the reasons Emma swore to her death bed that Joseph didn't practice polygamy, because he actually didn't.
"Sealings" are not "Polygamy"!!! Learn the difference and the actual history please.
Was Brigham Young the second Prophet of the Church polygamous? And if he was, what did Joseph do that was different, apart from firing blanks?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
ldsfaqs wrote:Joseph WAS NOT "polygamous"..... He was only "sealed" to many. He did not live "Polygamy". That is one of the reasons Emma swore to her death bed that Joseph didn't practice polygamy, because he actually didn't.
"Sealings" are not "Polygamy"!!!
LdsFaqs, what exactly does "practicing polygamy" mean to you? What are you saying Joseph wasn't involved in?
Drifting wrote:And if he was, what did Joseph do that was different, apart from firing blanks?
Well, not entirely firing blanks, if Todd Compton is right in his indication that Joseph was the biological father of Josephine Lyon.
But it makes me wonder sometimes, why would Joseph be firing so many "blanks," considering how fertile a man he was? Emma and he got pregnant nine times over a relatively short period of time. If Joseph was having sex with his plural wives as much as he was having sex with Emma, why wouldn't there have been more than one pregnancy among his plural wives attributable to him? This would be doubly relevant if DNA tests were to show that Josephine wasn't Joseph's biological daughter. (I have no idea whether such tests would result in that conclusion; I'm just saying it would be very interesting if they did.)
I hate how idiot believers can simply make an assertion, and then it's up to the critic to research the truth, post a link, and break down the historical narrative. The apologist's investment is little to no time compared to the people who feel like they have to refute the aforementioned person's lies.
- VRDRC
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
ldsfaqs wrote: Because there WERE NOT other people doing it primarily until Utah. You really need to study the history closer rather than believing anti-mormonism.
I get my information from historical records. The same ones apologists use. I wonder why they disagree with you here.
I once left the Church because of primarily Polygamy, Blacks & the Priesthood, and women and the Priesthood, and became anti-mormon and anti-religion. You are simply ignorant like I was, for you're not saying anything new that I've already debunked.
I have heard your little story, but I don't buy it. I am not anti-Mormon anyways. I just realize it is a man-made church like all the rest.
Drifting wrote:And if he was, what did Joseph do that was different, apart from firing blanks?
Well, not entirely firing blanks, if Todd Compton is right in his indication that Joseph was the biological father of Josephine Lyon.
But it makes me wonder sometimes, why would Joseph be firing so many "blanks," considering how fertile a man he was? Emma and he got pregnant nine times over a relatively short period of time. If Joseph was having sex with his plural wives as much as he was having sex with Emma, why wouldn't there have been more than one pregnancy among his plural wives attributable to him? This would be doubly relevant if DNA tests were to show that Josephine wasn't Joseph's biological daughter. (I have no idea whether such tests would result in that conclusion; I'm just saying it would be very interesting if they did.)
On another thread they are discussing why polygamous wives have less children then monogamous ones. Access to these wives would have been very limited, and he was accused of abortions for some of his wives. This explains a lot.
Last edited by Guest on Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Drifting wrote:And if he was, what did Joseph do that was different, apart from firing blanks?
Well, not entirely firing blanks, if Todd Compton is right in his indication that Joseph was the biological father of Josephine Lyon.
But it makes me wonder sometimes, why would Joseph be firing so many "blanks," considering how fertile a man he was? Emma and he got pregnant nine times over a relatively short period of time. If Joseph was having sex with his plural wives as much as he was having sex with Emma, why wouldn't there have been more than one pregnancy among his plural wives attributable to him? This would be doubly relevant if DNA tests were to show that Josephine wasn't Joseph's biological daughter. (I have no idea whether such tests would result in that conclusion; I'm just saying it would be very interesting if they did.)
I agree, especially in context of the commandment to live polygamosly being explicitly for the purpose of raising seed to multiply and replenish the earth. It's almost like Joseph ignored the commandment.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Drifting wrote:Was Brigham Young the second Prophet of the Church polygamous?
Yep
And if he was, what did Joseph do that was different, apart from firing blanks?
Joseph only had one actual wife. He only lived with one wife and likely only had relations with one wife. Emma made him promise that she was his only wife.
If Joseph was having "sex" with all these women, you wouldn't have been able to be sealed to already married women.
Joseph's marriages were "sealings", no different than sealings of children, etc.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
ldsfaqs wrote:Joseph WAS NOT "polygamous"..... He was only "sealed" to many. He did not live "Polygamy". That is one of the reasons Emma swore to her death bed that Joseph didn't practice polygamy, because he actually didn't.
"Sealings" are not "Polygamy"!!!
LdsFaqs, what exactly does "practicing polygamy" mean to you? What are you saying Joseph wasn't involved in?
Simple, he had only one wife. Polygamy is many wives. Sealings are not the same thing as Polygamy.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
Themis wrote:I get my information from historical records. The same ones apologists use. I wonder why they disagree with you here.
Actually, you omit and pervert history to make your judgments. Yes, some have been lazy and don't differentiate the difference between a sealing and actual polygamy just accepting the anti-mormon narrative at face value, and some are lazy to not evaluate carefully the so-called testimony's of those who in court who indicated certain things, again, simply accepting the anti-mormon narrative at face value.
I have heard your little story, but I don't buy it. I am not anti-Mormon anyways. I just realize it is a man-made church like all the rest.
You can think I'm "lying" all you want, but it's the truth. As to you thinking it man-made like any other..... do you really think you're the only one to ever think that? I did, and it's a false judgment based on incomplete information and bigotry.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro