A Scenario for our Male Apologists to Consider...

[_Yoda]

Let's look at the reward that is supposedly promised. The reward is POWER.. Hmmmmm......now, who does a lust for power sound more like? Satan or Christ?

Oh, Oh, Oh! I know! Pick me! Pick ME!

\m/

[Tator]

Let me change the wording slightly.

I, KevinSim, have seen or read no evidence that has persuaded me thus far that the majority of gay and lesbian marriages were NOT unhappy and unsatisfying for at least one spouse in each marriage. So I think the base assumption that a gay and lesbian option would be the equivalent of a bad marriage is a fair one. There are plenty of people who think that, despite the bizarre and unfounded imaginings of some people, men aren't designed to have sex with other men and women aren't designed to have sex with other women.

What's needed here is not conclusions based on one person's lack of seeing evidence of happy polygamous marriages; what's needed here is rigorous studies that have some chance of telling us the well researched truth about this alternate sexual lifestyle. Apply the same open mindedness to polygamy that you do to gay marriage.

Nice try. However, the comparison is not apt. Once again, evolutionary biology demonstrates that human beings - men and women - are not "wired" to share their primary mate. Polygamy is a system that demands females do so, against their nature. Gay marriage is not asking anyone to do anything against their nature. Quite the opposite.

There's a reason that polygamy is usually associated with patriarchal cultures with a strong central power. Women have to be forced into it, via cultural demands.

Or, put it this way. Going along with the OP question, do you think it's likely MEN would be happily married in a situation that required them to share their wives?

by the way, I think polygamy should be legal. I just am realistic enough to anticipate that it will rarely produce happily married women. But people should have their choice.

[_LDSToronto]

Interesting, Liz, because this says something to me that has nothing to do with marriage. I understand your feelings for your husband, but those feelings not withstanding, this is a commandment (in your hypothetical scenario).

Ah, but if you are asking me to dismiss the feelings for my husband, then you do not understand them at all. My feelings for my husband is the entire basis for my OP. It is God who created love. That is why there is such dissonance as far as this particular commandment is concerned.

I wasn't asking you to dismiss your feelings for your husband; I was suggesting that practice of Mormonism requires you to be obedient to God's commands, no matter how distasteful you feel the commandment is.

No reward is worth that sacrifice.

Let's look at the reward that is supposedly promised. The reward is POWER.. Hmmmmm......now, who does a lust for power sound more like? Satan or Christ?

Are you saying the Celestial Kingdom is a false notion? Because that is the reward for just about everything in the Mormonish religion.

H.

[_Tobin]

Liz,

If God appeared and told me to do so, I would (and he'd better appear and tell the other person as well). Other than that, hell no.

I think that should be the standard for such things.

[_Yoda]

I wasn't asking you to dismiss your feelings for your husband; I was suggesting that practice of Mormonism requires you to be obedient to God's commands, no matter how distasteful you feel the commandment is.

No. The practice of Mormonism requires you to obey God's commandments, which, if they truly ARE God's commandments, will not be distasteful to the core of Christian morality. The fact that there IS such a conflict is a red flag to me that something isn't right.

Are you saying the Celestial Kingdom is a false notion? Because that is the reward for just about everything in the Mormonish religion.

If the Celestial Kingdom requires everyone who enters to participate in plural marriage, then it is not only a false notion, but an abomination.

[_Cicero]

If the Celestial Kingdom requires everyone who enters to participate in plural marriage, then it is not only a false notion, but an abomination.

I personally think D&C 132 is pretty explicit on that point.

[_Nortinski]

If the Celestial Kingdom requires everyone who enters to participate in plural marriage, then it is not only a false notion, but an abomination.

I personally think D&C 132 is pretty explicit on that point.

So was Brigham Young. Or was he only "speaking as a man" when he said the things he said about polygamy?

[_Madison54]

If the Celestial Kingdom requires everyone who enters to participate in plural marriage, then it is not only a false notion, but an abomination.

I thought it was a requirement in only the highest degree of the Celestial kingdom(???).....it all becomes very confusing.

[_LDSToronto]

I wasn't asking you to dismiss your feelings for your husband; I was suggesting that practice of Mormonism requires you to be obedient to God's commands, no matter how distasteful you feel the commandment is.

No. The practice of Mormonism requires you to obey God's commandments, which, if they truly ARE God's commandments, will not be distasteful to the core of Christian morality. The fact that there IS such a conflict is a red flag to me that something isn't right.

I don't know about that. No LDS teaching refers to the the broader Christian morality as a standard by which it measures the truth of God's commandments. Just look at the things the LDS teach that are considered immoral by other Christians:

1. Baptism for the dead and other temple rites
2. A different definition of God and Jesus Christ
3. Teachings that imply Satan and Christ are brothers

I can't imagine why polygamy would suddenly invoke the need to benchmark against Christian morality.

Are you saying the Celestial Kingdom is a false notion? Because that is the reward for just about everything in the Mormonish religion.

If the Celestial Kingdom requires everyone who enters to participate in plural marriage, then it is not only a false notion, but an abomination.

Well, that's not what I'm talking about - you said that the reward for those who follow God's commands is power, which by Mormon definition means the Celestial kingdom.

Mind you, D&C 132 pretty much canonizes this polygamy in the upper echelons of the after-life...

H.

[_madeleine]

I don't know about that. No LDS teaching refers to the the broader Christian morality as a standard by which it measures the truth of God's commandments. Just look at the things the LDS teach that are considered immoral by other Christians:

1. Baptism for the dead and other temple rites
2. A different definition of God and Jesus Christ
3. Teachings that imply Satan and Christ are brothers

These aren't moral issues. They are issues of faith.

I can't imagine why polygamy would suddenly invoke the need to benchmark against Christian morality.

Christian morality on marriage is clear, and defined by the teachings of Jesus Christ.

- Marriage is between a man and a woman, as God created us in the beginning (Adam and Eve).
- Any other sexual relationship outside of the two people, even if you call it "marriage", is adultery.
- There is no marriage in heaven.

Well, that's not what I'm talking about - you said that the reward for those who follow God's commands is power, which by Mormon definition means the Celestial kingdom.

Mind you, D&C 132 pretty much canonizes this polygamy in the upper echelons of the after-life...

H.

To Liz's point...Satan's temptation in the garden was for Adam and Eve to become gods. Mormonism has enshrined this temptation as God's will. This is a MAJOR foundational difference between Mormonism and Christianity. Mormon polygamy is just an extension of this temptation.