Is Misogyny Alive and Well With Some TBMs?

[_Quasimodo]

Colonel Simon West
First Battalion, Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders
Howe Barracks, Canterbury, Kent
Tuesday 09 November 2004
[image deleted]

God save the Queen!

Remember that Scottish clans, although families, are also traditionally organized military units, and the kilt is a male military uniform designed for close quarters combat and surviving in a harsh outdoor environment.

Colonel Simon West will never live it down. I wonder if her Highness has that picture framed and hanging in her bedroom.

[_harmony]

Do you think Droopy has traveled much?

It's obvious he's never been to the Polynesian Cultural Center on the island of Oahu. Had he been there, he'd know that virtually all of the male performer wear skirts.

[_Quasimodo]

It's obvious he's never been to the Polynesian Cultural Center on the island of Oahu. Had he been there, he'd know that virtually all of the male performer wear skirts.

Droopy lives in his own world. It wouldn't matter where he has traveled, his world view would remain the same.

[_harmony]

Do you think Droopy has traveled much?

It's obvious he's never been to the Polynesian Cultural Center on the island of Oahu. Had he been there, he'd know that virtually all of the male performer wear skirts.

Not only that, but they're all LDS!

[_LDSToronto]

If anything, I think the Church does a diservice to women by going out of their way to express how much women are revered.

H.

Love you too, bb.

This point right here stems from the deification of motherhood or the cult of motherhood. It appeared for the second time around or right after WWII in an effort to get women back in the home and keep them out of the public sphere and workforce. Germany had a whole lot of amazing propoganda that sounded a lot like some of the things LDS GA's say from the pulpit. (See Women and Authority: Re-emerging Mormon Feminism for examples)

Putting women on a pedestal has the same effect as putting them under your feet. Telling a woman that she is too precious and glorious and spiritual to (choose anything from hold political office to vote to hold ecclesiastical office to be the CEO of a major corporation) is just as misogynistic as telling a woman she is too stupid to do those things.

Would you say chauvinism is the same as misogyny? What about exaggerated chivalry? I do hear what you are saying - it's almost akin to saying, "Don't worry your pretty little head about those things, sweetie". I just wonder if it is really misogyny.

by the way, when you say misogyny, what how do you define it?

H.

[_harmony]

Would you say chauvinism is the same as misogyny? What about exaggerated chivalry? I do hear what you are saying - it's almost akin to saying, "Don't worry your pretty little head about those things, sweetie". I just wonder if it is really misogyny.

That pat on the head of patronizing. And marginalizing. And irritating as hell.

[_just me]

Love you too, bb.

This point right here stems from the deification of motherhood or the cult of motherhood. It appeared for the second time around or right after WWII in an effort to get women back in the home and keep them out of the public sphere and workforce. Germany had a whole lot of amazing propoganda that sounded a lot like some of the things LDS GA's say from the pulpit. (See Women and Authority: Re-emerging Mormon Feminism for examples)

Putting women on a pedestal has the same effect as putting them under your feet. Telling a woman that she is too precious and glorious and spiritual to (choose anything from hold political office to vote to hold ecclesiastical office to be the CEO of a major corporation) is just as misogynistic as telling a woman she is too stupid to do those things.

Would you say chauvinism is the same as misogyny? What about exaggerated chivalry? I do hear what you are saying - it's almost akin to saying, "Don't worry your pretty little head about those things, sweetie". I just wonder if it is really misogyny.

by the way, when you say misogyny, what how do you define it?

H.

I've been pondering this. I think that when men view women as "other" it would be difficult to trust them and view them as equals. Mistrust of women can fall under the umbrella of misogyny (hatred, dislike or mistrust of women). Viewing the opposite sex as inferior is chauvinism. Descriminating against women (in this case) is sexism.

Okay, those are my working definitions for this discussion.

I can see now that a lot of the verbal behaviors at church likely fall under chauvinism. I do believe the chauvinism to be rooted in a long history of misogyny and sexism. The church clearly is sexist and while they may have backed away from a strong misogyny the doctrine of it is still there and believed to have come from God.

I do think that calling a woman walking porn, whore, slut, bitch, and other female slurs is misogynistic. But then I feel similar about calling men fairies, pansies, girls, etc.

Anyway, I'll keep thinking about this.

Exaggerated chivalry...If we're talking about some random guy going around treating women like they are weaker than him...uh, not cool. That is chauvinistic. Just like putting females on a pedestal.

I don't think common curtesy is anything but nice. Opening doors, helping with boxes, etc. I do that kind of crap and I like it when others do it. I think that for most people it has nothing to do with perceiving the other person as weaker...in this day and age. It's just being nice and helpful.

[_EAllusion]

Women are rapidly gaining on men in new computer science degrees. Of course, since men already make up a huge % of the field and they don't just all die the second a new person gets a degree, they will continue to hold a majority for a while even if women achieve parity. If you look at most fields, women are outpacing men in new postgrad degrees at a reasonably high rate. They now dominate overall masters degrees and, just recently, have overtaken the overall doctoral rate. This creep has been coming for a while, and is a reflection of changes coming from the bottom up. Since performance there is predictive of eventual doctoral rates, we should expect to see women outpace men in new academics by a significant degree within a decade or so. I view this is as a worrying trend, as it reflects some underlying gender biases in what we are doing. Even Droopy might be concerned, as this affects people with penises. That's serious business.

Right now, women make up a little under a 1/3rd of new doctorates in computer science and math. That's up from next to nothing 20 years ago.

[_EAllusion]

Men also hold a 60/40 edge in business school degrees. But, business majors, amiright guys?

[_madeleine]

I work in a technology field, and have for my whole adult life. The first Microsoft conference I attended, I estimated the ratio of women there was 1:100. The more recent conferences I attend, it is more around 10:100. Discouraging. But it has gotten better. In the mid 80's we were hiring an additional sys admin, one of the candidates made the comment to me that he had never met a sys admin who didn't have a beard.

:/

File that under "things to not say in a job interview".

LOL! I hear ya, Madeline! I have also been working in the technology field for the last 12 years. I am the ONLY female Computer Science Instructor at my college in my department. When I sat for my MCSD (Microsoft Certified Systems Development) exams, I was the only female in the testing center. Women are still a huge minority in the Computer Information Technology field, and, unfortunately, I think a lot of the reason is the fact that many women just don't have the self confidence that they can do well in this type of field. My female students are amazed at themselves when they pick up on the programming concepts as quickly as they do. I think that we really need to work on encouraging young girls in math, and giving them the self confidence they need.

Awesome. I'm self-taught, started programming in the 80's. At one point I was a director of IT, but bleh. I like working with technology, not managing people. I've been taking 1 or 2 classes at the community college forever now, and will finally graduate in Dec. Can't think that I'll continue. I'm headed towards the end of my career. I haven't been able to convince myself that the investment at a university will be worth it, at this point in my life.

I'm happily employed at a non-profit, which is a very small island of non-Mormons in the middle of Utah. People actually never ask anyone else what ward they're in.

I train tech volunteers now and then. Even now, some of the young women who volunteer are impressed that a girl (me) knows her tech.

I taught my daughter to program her own website using HTML when she was 12 years old. lol. She was a huge fan of Inuyasha and built a site with all her favorite Inuyasha stuff. She's contemplating becoming a game programmer.