My Testimony.

[_Cylon]

It is surprising that people here can deny that witness that they received when they also prayed about the Book of Mormon.

I got a very good feeling when I prayed about the Book of Mormon that I took to be a witness of the Holy Ghost. Since then I have also gotten that same feeling when reading fictional books, watching fictional movies, and more recently, when I prayed and asked if the church was false. If that was the Holy Ghost, he needs to make up his mind.

I'm perfectly willing to accept that some people have had different, more powerful spiritual experiences than I did. But there certainly have been no shortage of people telling me that what I did feel was the Spirit, and that I should base the most important decisions of my life on those feelings. That doesn't cut it for me anymore.

[_SteelHead]

The problem with spiritual witness is it proves nothing outside of the fact that people can generate some feeling that they label a spiritual witness. When two people receive diametrically opposed answers to the same question and both claim spiritual witness, is there any worth to the witness, or the whole process?

[_Yoda]

In other words, you don't believe in the scriptures. Interesting. I thought you believed that Book of Mormon (as least parts) was inspiried. If not by God, then who?

Honestly, I don't know. It's still an open question for me. What I said was that I found passages of the Book of Mormon to be elegant and inspiring, by which I meant uplifting rather than inspired by God. The key point where we differ in our notions of epistemology is that I no longer trust the spiritual experiences I have had in the church . . . mainly because I cannot really distinguish them from the experiences that members of other faiths have had.

Why would they be that different? Who is to say that God can't communicate with his children who are of a different faith or a different sect of Christianity? I think that the fact that the experiences are similar proves more of a consistent God than otherwise.

[_Cylon]

Honestly, I don't know. It's still an open question for me. What I said was that I found passages of the Book of Mormon to be elegant and inspiring, by which I meant uplifting rather than inspired by God. The key point where we differ in our notions of epistemology is that I no longer trust the spiritual experiences I have had in the church . . . mainly because I cannot really distinguish them from the experiences that members of other faiths have had.

Why would they be that different? Who is to say that God can't communicate with his children who are of a different faith or a different sect of Christianity? I think that the fact that the experiences are similar proves more of a consistent God than otherwise.

The experiences are similar, but the truths that the experiences are supposed to confirm are wildly different. So if they do come from God, he must not care all that much what we believe. To be clear, I think this is a distinct possibility.

[Guest]

Is it consistent to say that the same spirit that inspires a Mormon to believe in the Book of Mormon is the selfsame spirit inspiring a suicide bomber with a vest full of ball bearings on a bus full of Israeli kids and Christians?

It is all proof of consistency?

[_Darth J]

I no longer write letters to Santa Claus, but I cannot deny my testimony of him because when I woke up on Christmas morning as I kid I received presents that were very fun. So, I hear what you are saying, Why Me. It is surprising that people here can deny that witness that they received when they got presents on Christmas morning.

You might eventually figure out that your attributing it all to a jolly fat man from the North Pole in a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer may have been erroneous, but you can never deny that the presents were there.

[Guest]

Exu tells me he consistently gives the various religions conflicting missives to create confusion from which they can learn.

He rolls that way.

[_Jason Bourne]

Let me reaffirm my testimony here, on Mormon Discussions, once and for all to read.

I am not an active member of the Church. In fact, I am not even a member, having withdrawn my membership in early 2001.

Regardless of speculation, I affirm that notwithstanding my questions and doubts about the historicity of the Book of Mormon (views which may change), I have never doubted that the Book of Mormon is divinely inspired, and came through revelation to the Prophet Joseph Smith. I reject the so-called "Spalding Theory", and any theories which claim to explain this Book otherwise, because I have found them unsatisfactory.

While I may not be a believer in the conventional sense, I want it to be known to God and men that I have never denied my testimony of the Book of Mormon, at any time. I love and cherish that Book, and I believe it speaks The Word of the Living God, and I agree with the Prophet Joseph when he said: "I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book."

In this regard, I have not changed my view of the Book of Mormon in 37 years, and should my mortal probation be terminated any time soon, I want it to be known that I believe the Book of Mormon to be a revelation given by God to us today, and that those individuals and nations who heed its teachings will prosper, while those who fight against it will diminish. It speaks truth and peace to me, but also serves as a warning against my own sins and weaknesses, for which I hope for some kind of redemption.

Out of one man, sometimes called the "boy prophet", came this great religion, which now permeates the earth, like the great stone rolling, until it will consume all other kingdoms, principalities and dominions, and will sweep the earth with righteousness, and lay the way for an earth where the lion and lamb shall dwell in peace, and there shall be no more war. All things shall be done in God's time, and all shall receive their just reward, whether it be good or evil.

Let no one say, henceforth, that I have ever denied the truth of the Book of Mormon, and let this, if necessary, be my dying testimony.

God Bless.

Hey Ray

You are alright by me buddy. I think I feel much the same as you about the Book of Mormon though how we got it is a puzzle to me. I think it as inspired as any other religious text such as the Bible, Quran, etc. As for anyone challenging why you are not an active member I just say run your own race. That is what I do. I have to please myself first and I am quite happy to do so.

[_Jason Bourne]

Let me reaffirm my testimony here, on Mormon Discussions, once and for all to read.

I am not an active member of the Tolkien fanclub. In fact, I am not even a member, having withdrawn my membership in early 2001.

Regardless of speculation, I affirm that notwithstanding my questions and doubts about the historicity of the Lord of the Rings (views which may change), I have never doubted that the Lord of the Rings is divinely inspired, and came through revelation to the Prophet J.R.R. Tolkien. I reject the so-called "Inklings Collaborative Theory", and any theories which claim to explain this Book otherwise, because I have found them unsatisfactory.

While I may not be a believer in the conventional sense, I want it to be known to God and men that I have never denied my testimony of the Lord of the Rings, at any time. I love and cherish that Book, and I believe it speaks The Word of the Living Hobbit, and I agree with the Prophet Samwise Gamgee when he said: "I told the brethren that the Lord of the Rings was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to my master Frodo Baggins by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book."

In this regard, I have not changed my view of the Lord of the Rings in 26 years, and should my mortal probation be terminated any time soon, I want it to be known that I believe the Lord of the Rings to be a revelation given by Tolkien to us today, and that those individuals and nations who heed its teachings will prosper, while those who fight against it will diminish. It speaks truth and peace to me, but also serves as a warning against my own sins and weaknesses, for which I hope for some kind of redemption.

Out of one man, sometimes called the "hobbit prophet", came this great religion, which now permeates the earth, like the great stone rolling, until it will consume all other kingdoms, principalities and dominions, and will sweep the earth with righteousness, and lay the way for an earth where the lion and lamb shall dwell in peace, and there shall be no more war. All things shall be done in God's time, and all shall receive their just reward, whether it be good or evil.

Let no one say, henceforth, that I have ever denied the truth of the Lord of the Rings, and let this, if necessary, be my dying testimony.

Gandalf Bless.

Why mock Ray?

[_Kishkumen]

Hey Ray

You are all right by me buddy. I think I feel much the same as you about the Book of Mormon though how we got it is a puzzle to me. I think it as inspired as any other religious text such as the Bible, Quran, etc. As for anyone challenging why you are not an active member I just say run your own race. That is what I do. I have to please myself first and I am quite happy to do so.

I don't begrudge him his ability and right to believe as he pleases. I still find his testimony of the LDS Church as the Kingdom of God, which will fill the earth and become its world government, both unexpected and odd in a person who has resigned and continues to insist that he has no plans to rejoin. I see nothing wrong or offensive in seeking some clarification on that.