My Testimony.

[Guest]

Why mock Ray?

Indeed, why not give Ray the respect and deference he has so painstakingly earned?

My educated guess is that you probably have some kind of compulsive masturbation habit, and you see Mormonism as a way of redeeming yourself.

Maybe you should check in to some kind of addiction centre.

Maybe that will also cure you of your obsessive need to attack "Exmos" to justify flogging your dick too much.

You married? Did you tell your wife that you masturbate on the side?
.........
Now be sure to check yourself into that compulsive masturbation centre, because you have all the classic signs of a compulsive masturbator who sees "apologetics" as a kind of "redemption" from dick addiction.

In other words, you're just a typical Mormon hypocrite, and probably a speck in the pool of "Mormon priesthood holders" who contribute to enormous porn viewing among Mormon males.

Now go have your daily wank.

I promise I won't tell your wife.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14333&start=21

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13596&hilit=winner

I find most of Scott's reasoning bizzare, to say the least. It's like they live in this Gilligan's Island cocoon, sheltered from the rest of the real world in a sort of "Jack and the Beanstalk" fantasy. 1 million light years away from reality. If Darth is in fact active, then his "anti-Mormon" criticisms hold more credibility for me than a whole choir of apologists singing "Let us all press on."

Mormon apologist are just so stoopid, with an absolute minimal appeal to intelligence, that I rank them with a lower IQ than Mickey Mouse. (Okay, I may be exaggerating).

You are just a rat dying in a spiritless desert, and hoping to gain converts to your unbelief misery.

Really, Darth, you're such a pathetic creature. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21515&start=252

Go back all you want, quote all you want, and keep establishing yourself as a little spiritually dead man with a pea brain.

You're such a fool. Really. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21515&start=273

You're such a fool, Darth. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21424&start=63

You're just like the rest of the anti-Mormons here.

And no, I'm not going to take you seriously.

You're just another MDB A-Hole. Just like ALL of the other A-holes who post here.

You want me to waste my time on people like you?

Get a [omitted per Terrestrial Forum rules] life. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21424&start=84

You really are such a fool, and you're an obsessed anti-Mormon. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21531&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=84

Ray certainly seems to have had that mighty change of heart we read about in Mosiah 5 that happens when we get a testimony from the Holy Ghost.

[_grindael]

Out of one man, sometimes called the "boy prophet", came this great religion, which now permeates the earth, like the great stone rolling, until it will consume all other kingdoms, principalities and dominions, and will sweep the earth with righteousness, and lay the way for an earth where the lion and lamb shall dwell in peace, and there shall be no more war. All things shall be done in God's time, and all shall receive their just reward, whether it be good or evil.

If those who believe in Mormonism for whatever reason want to keep plugging it, more power to ya. But in the light of evidence, I couldn't do it. Whenever I think of the Book of Mormon I think of this guy, who said the above would happen by 1890:

"The Book of Mormon contains many prophecies, yet future, with names, places, and dates, so definite, that a child may understand; indeed, it is one of the peculiar characteristics of the Book of Mormon, that its predictions are plain, simple, definite, literal, positive and very express, as to the time of their fulfilment...See also, page 526, where a sign is given, and the time clearly set for the restoration and gathering of Israel from their long dispersion, namely, the coming forth the Book of Mormon, should be the sign; and in the day this work should come forth, should this great event commence among all nations. Also, p. 527, where all who will not hearken to the Book of Mormon, shall be cut off from among the people; and that too, in the day it comes forth to the Gentiles and is rejected by them. And not only does this page set the time for the overthrow of our government and all other Gentile governments on the American continent, but the way and means of this utter destruction are clearly foretold; namely, the remnant of Jacob [The Lamanites or Native Americans] will go through among the Gentiles and tear them in pieces. like a lion among the flocks of sheep. Their hand shall be lifted up upon their adversaries, and all their enemies shall be cut off. This destruction includes an utter overthrow, and desolation of all our Cities, Forts, and Strong Folds--an entire annihilation of our race, except such as embrace the Covenant, and are numbered with Israel...Now, Mr. Sunderland, you have something definite and tangible, the time, the manner, the means, the names, the dates; and I will state as a prophecy, that there will not be an unbelieving Gentile upon this continent 50 years hence; and if they are not greatly scourged, and in a great measure overthrown, within five or ten years from this date, then the Book of Mormon will have proved itself false." ~Parley P. Pratt, Mormonism Unveiled, 1838 pages 14-15

Mormonism hardly "permeates" the earth, (more like scattered here and there) and by a prophecy of one of their own "apostles" the Book of Mormon is false. It would be refreshing if Mormon "authorities" stopped lying, and admitted the truth that Mormonism is just the invention of a complex man that indeed felt the need to promulgate his religious views, got caught too many times lying and wholly underestimated the impact of his words and actions on those around him, which ultimately led to his murder. We live in America, and people are free to follow the dictates of their own consciences, and worship as they please. But the millennial views of early Mormonism were false, the dates came and went, and like so many others who have felt that impulse to speculate about Jesus and his return, (America has produced many), they have not been able to admit to themselves that they were just plain wrong, and keep trying to reset the clock instead of throwing it out and getting a new one. That part of Mormonism is broken and hopefully someone in the church will have a different view about how to tell the truth, live long enough to become it's "prophet" and start telling it, instead of perjuring themselves in front of the U.S. Senate like one of their "prophets" did. I hope this will come to pass soon because there are a lot of good people involved in it, that need to make a truly informed choice.

[_grindael]

Don't go away, Don, because you are one of the finest human beings I know.

Having been favored with a few private conversations with Don, for what it's worth, He is a real class act.

[_Cicero]

Why would they be that different? Who is to say that God can't communicate with his children who are of a different faith or a different sect of Christianity? I think that the fact that the experiences are similar proves more of a consistent God than otherwise.

Liz: I realize that the church has never claimed a monopoly on truth, nor has it claimed that non-members can never be inspired by God. However, I think it is a stretch to say that the church is as ecumenical as your post implies. I was never taught to believe that all faiths and sects of Christianity lead to salvation. Instead, I was taught that the way is strait and narrow and that the church is “the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth." The church also teaches that the gift of the Holy Ghost is qualitatively different from the spirit of Christ that all people can feel. I believed in that, fervently, and taught many others to believe the same as a missionary. I believed that my spiritual experiences were proof of THE truth because that is what I was taught to believe. That is why I expected that for others it should be qualitatively different (because they only had some truths but not all the truth).

When I finally admitted to myself that my spiritual experiences were not in fact qualitatively different from those experienced by members of other faiths, my testimony was severely shaken.

What you see as evidence of a "more consistent God" I see as evidence of consistent human nature. Whether this consistency indicates the presence of a supreme being that can influence all, or an evolutionary survival mechanism, is up for debate. I lean towards the latter explanation.

[_Drifting]

Why would they be that different? Who is to say that God can't communicate with his children who are of a different faith or a different sect of Christianity? I think that the fact that the experiences are similar proves more of a consistent God than otherwise.

Liz: I realize that the church has never claimed a monopoly on truth, nor has it claimed that non-members can never be inspired by God. However, I think it is a stretch to say that the church is as ecumenical as your post implies. I was never taught to believe that all faiths and sects of Christianity lead to salvation. Instead, I was taught that the way is strait and narrow and that the church is “the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth." The church also teaches that the gift of the Holy Ghost is qualitatively different from the spirit of Christ that all people can feel. I believed in that, fervently, and taught many others to believe the same as a missionary. I believed that my spiritual experiences were proof of THE truth because that is what I was taught to believe. That is why I expected that for others it should be qualitatively different (because they only had some truths but not all the truth).

When I finally admitted to myself that my spiritual experiences were not in fact qualitatively different from those experienced by members of other faiths, my testimony was severely shaken.

What you see as evidence of a "more consistent God" I see as evidence of consistent human nature. Whether this consistency indicates the presence of a supreme being that can influence all, or an evolutionary survival mechanism, is up for debate. I lean towards the latter explanation.

Cicero, you are quite correct.
Non Mormons only get HGLite whilst Mormons have exclusive access to the full fat version...

All honest seekers of the truth can feel the influence of the Holy Ghost, leading them to Jesus Christ and His gospel. However, the fulness of the blessings given through the Holy Ghost are available only to those who receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and remain worthy.

After a person is baptized into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, one or more Melchizedek Priesthood holders lay their hands on the person's head and, in a sacred priesthood ordinance, confirm him or her a member of the Church. As part of this ordinance, called confirmation, the person is given the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The gift of the Holy Ghost is different from the influence of the Holy Ghost. Before baptism, a person can feel the influence of the Holy Ghost from time to time and through that influence can receive a testimony of the truth. After receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, a person has the right to the constant companionship of that member of the Godhead if he or she keeps the commandments.

[_Jason Bourne]

Why mock Ray?

Indeed, why not give Ray the respect and deference he has so painstakingly earned?

My educated guess is that you probably have some kind of compulsive masturbation habit, and you see Mormonism as a way of redeeming yourself.

Maybe you should check in to some kind of addiction centre.

Maybe that will also cure you of your obsessive need to attack "Exmos" to justify flogging your dick too much.

You married? Did you tell your wife that you masturbate on the side?
.........
Now be sure to check yourself into that compulsive masturbation centre, because you have all the classic signs of a compulsive masturbator who sees "apologetics" as a kind of "redemption" from dick addiction.

In other words, you're just a typical Mormon hypocrite, and probably a speck in the pool of "Mormon priesthood holders" who contribute to enormous porn viewing among Mormon males.

Now go have your daily wank.

I promise I won't tell your wife.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14333&start=21

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13596&hilit=winner

I find most of Scott's reasoning bizzare, to say the least. It's like they live in this Gilligan's Island cocoon, sheltered from the rest of the real world in a sort of "Jack and the Beanstalk" fantasy. 1 million light years away from reality. If Darth is in fact active, then his "anti-Mormon" criticisms hold more credibility for me than a whole choir of apologists singing "Let us all press on."

Mormon apologist are just so stoopid, with an absolute minimal appeal to intelligence, that I rank them with a lower IQ than Mickey Mouse. (Okay, I may be exaggerating).

You are just a rat dying in a spiritless desert, and hoping to gain converts to your unbelief misery.

Really, Darth, you're such a pathetic creature. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21515&start=252

Go back all you want, quote all you want, and keep establishing yourself as a little spiritually dead man with a pea brain.

You're such a fool. Really. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21515&start=273

You're such a fool, Darth. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21424&start=63

You're just like the rest of the anti-Mormons here.

And no, I'm not going to take you seriously.

You're just another MDB A-Hole. Just like ALL of the other A-holes who post here.

You want me to waste my time on people like you?

Get a [omitted per Terrestrial Forum rules] life. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21424&start=84

You really are such a fool, and you're an obsessed anti-Mormon. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21531&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=84

Ray certainly seems to have had that mighty change of heart we read about in Mosiah 5 that happens when we get a testimony from the Holy Ghost.

Hmmmmmm. Well alrightly then!

[_sock puppet]

I love and cherish that Book [of Mormon], and I believe it speaks The Word of the Living God, and I agree with the Prophet Joseph when he said: "I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book."

In this regard, I have not changed my view of the Book of Mormon in 37 years, and should my mortal probation be terminated any time soon, I want it to be known that I believe the Book of Mormon to be a revelation given by God to us today, and that those individuals and nations who heed its teachings will prosper, while those who fight against it will diminish.

What are those precepts and teachings that cause individuals and nations to prosper that are not found in the New Testament?

What about the four Gospels of the New Testament are unsettling, that do not leave you as peaceful as say the beheading of Laban, the warring factions in the Book of Mormon?

I see the Book of Mormon at best as a retread of the Bible. At worst...well, I'm sure you can imagine what I really think the Book of Mormon's production was all about.

[_Drifting]

I love and cherish that Book [of Mormon], and I believe it speaks The Word of the Living God, and I agree with the Prophet Joseph when he said: "I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book."

In this regard, I have not changed my view of the Book of Mormon in 37 years, and should my mortal probation be terminated any time soon, I want it to be known that I believe the Book of Mormon to be a revelation given by God to us today, and that those individuals and nations who heed its teachings will prosper, while those who fight against it will diminish.

What are those precepts and teachings that cause individuals and nations to prosper that are not found in the New Testament?

What about the four Gospels of the New Testament are unsettling, that do not leave you as peaceful as say the beheading of Laban, the warring factions in the Book of Mormon?

Just to help things a little...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precept
A precept is a commandment, instruction, or order intended as an authoritative rule of action.

[_Shulem]

You are sickening me, Ray. I can't even get past page 2 of this thread without practically barfing.

Let me tell you something, Ray. The whole of the Old Testament is an evil book written by sick men who enjoyed controlling others. The Jehovah who loved to murder those who opposed him is a monster. The idea that a loving God told Abraham to slay his own precious son on an altar is a sick story and the very depiction of everything you should reject.

The doctrine of Jesus is sick. The idea of sins being forgiven as his apostles taught is cultish doctrines. You don't even know what Jesus said! We do not even have a single sentence penned by his own hand. His sick apostles took over and wrote a new religion in effort to outdo the Old Testament. The whole thing is an abomination. Furthermore, Jesus was a kook and the Romans needed to put him down.

The Mormon church is nothing but a whore in mother earth. It makes me utterly ill to think of the church and all the lies it is founded on. The Book of Mormon is no more true than the silly Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 and you can take that all the way to the bank. The doctrine of Jesus atoning for sins is sick cult ritual at work. Count me out! You can take your Goddamn testimony of the 19th century Book of Mormon to the grave, buddy, it's the most stupid book ever written after the Bible.

I still want to have that drink with you. Love you, Ray, but you're losing your mind and going nuts. Maybe your name is written in the writing of Facsimile No. 3? Maybe your name is written in Isaiah and also in the Book of Mormon?

Paul O

[_Kevin Graham]

It is surprising that people here can deny that witness that they received when they also prayed about the Book of Mormon.

That's myth. People don't "deny the testimony" because the "testimony" never existed. Joseph Smith has already been proven a fraud who could not translate ancient documents. He lied about his ability to translate Egyptian documents so why believe he could translate "reformed" Egyptian?

In fact that vast majority of people who pick up the Book of Mormon and read it feel absolutely nothing. Even the vast majority of people who pray about it, receive no such "witness." In fact I've come across plenty of Evangelicals on my mission and elsewhere, who said God explicitly told them the book was Satanic after they prayed about it.

The whole promise about a spiritual encounter with God once you've prayed about it is what excites the imagination of some readers who actually yearn for such an experience, and thus good feelings are invoked internally, not externally. This is very much how the placebo effect works. It is the same reason why people like my wife knock on wood and do all sorts of idiotic superstitious things. There is no evidence to believe in any of this stuff, but they believe "just in case" it may be true and then they attack all the non believers in order to make themselves feel even better about their baseless beliefs.