Kids who die before age 8 DON'T automatically go to the C.K.

[_Tobin]

This whole thing is a fictitious crock to start with. Just because you check out of this life early (say at the fetus stage), does not mean you go to the CK, are exalted, pass Go and collect $200, and all that non-sense. You will be tested and tried like everyone else in the next life. There are no automatic passes. The purpose of this stage in our existence is merely to obtain a mortal body. That's it. Becoming a Celestial Being is an entirely different matter.

[_zeezrom]

Yes Tobin. We need to see if those spirits are willing to pay tithing, dammit!

[_Tobin]

Yes Tobin. We need to see if those spirits are willing to pay tithing, dammit!

No, zeezrom. They need to choose to follow God and all that entails. Just like we do. That is not a choice that can be made for them.

[_beastie]

This whole thing is a fictitious crock to start with. Just because you check out of this life early (say at the fetus stage), does not mean you go to the CK, are exalted, pass Go and collect $200, and all that non-sense. You will be tested and tried like everyone else in the next life. There are no automatic passes. This purpose of this stage in our existence is merely to obtain a mortal body. That's it. Becoming a Celestial Being is an entirely different matter.

I'm not framing this discussing using the rules of Tobin's unique religion, but thank you for demonstrating the willingness to throw the babies under the bus. I'm framing this discussion using the actual teachings of the LDS church.

Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all children who die before arriving at the years of accountability will inherit celestial glory.

There is no infant or child that has died before arriving at the years of accountability, but what is redeemed, and is therefore entirely beyond the torments of hell. … I will defy any man to find in any of the records of divine truth any ordinance instituted for the salvation of little innocent children; it would be unnecessary on the face of it, and the only thing that can be found is where Jesus took the little ones in his arms and blessed them, which is and would be perfectly right to do according to the order of God. But the sprinkling of infants or the doctrine that infants go to hell under any circumstances, is a doctrine ordained of man and not of God, and is therefore of no avail and entirely wrong and displeasing in the sight of God. So much about the infants. … They are redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ. 21

Children are innocent before the Lord; as to their death and the cause thereof, that is in the hands of God, and we should not complain of the Lord or his dispensations any more than Job did. … There is this consolation connected with the matter—they are innocent, they are not in transgression. They have paid the law of death which God passed on Adam and all his posterity; but when their spirits left their bodies and got into the spirit world their trouble and affliction were over. … They will come forth out of their graves in the morning of the resurrection, … clothed with glory, immortality and eternal life, in eternal beauty and bloom, and they will be given into the hands of their parents, and they will receive them in the family organization of the celestial world, and their parents will have them for ever. They will live as long as their God lives. This, to Latter-day Saints, who believe in the resurrection, should be a source of comfort and consolation.

… The question may arise with me and with you—“Why has the Lord taken away my children?” But that is not for me to tell, because I do not know; it is in the hands of the Lord, and it has been so from the creation of the world all the way down. Children are taken away in their infancy, and they go to the spirit world. They come here and fulfil the object of their coming, that is, they tabernacle in the flesh. They come to receive a probation and an inheritance on the earth; they obtain a body, or tabernacle, and that tabernacle will be preserved for them, and in the morning of the resurrection the spirits and bodies will be reunited, and as here we find children of various ages in a family, from the infant at the mother’s breast to manhood, so will it be in the family organization in the celestial world. Our children will be restored to us as they are laid down if we, their parents, keep the faith and prove ourselves worthy to obtain eternal life; and if we do not so prove ourselves our children will still be preserved, and will inherit celestial glory. This is my view in regard to all infants who die, whether they are born to Jew or Gentile, righteous or wicked. They come from their eternal father and their eternal mother unto whom they were born in the eternal world, and they will be restored to their eternal parentage; and all parents who have received children here according to the order of God and the holy priesthood, no matter in what age they may have lived, will claim those children in the morning of the resurrection, and they will be given unto them and they will grace their family organizations in the celestial world. …

… I will say to our mourning friends, your children are taken away and you cannot help it, we cannot any of us help it; there is no censure to be given to parents when they do the best they can. A mother should not be censured because she cannot save her sick child, and we have to leave these things in the hand of God. It will be but a little time until they will be restored to us. …

With regard to the growth, glory or exaltation of children in the life to come God has not revealed anything on that subject to me, either about your children, mine or anybody else’s, any further than we know they are saved. And I feel that we have to put our trust in the Lord in these afflictions, we have to lean upon his arm and to look to him for comfort and consolation. We do not mourn under these afflictions as those who have no hope; we do not mourn the loss of our children as though we were never going to see them again, because we know better. The Lord has taught us better, and so has the gospel; the revelations of Jesus Christ have shown us that they will be restored to us in the resurrection of the just. …

… I pray my Heavenly Father that he will bless Brother and Sister Wheeler [a couple whose four-year-old and six year-old sons had recently died] in their bereavement, and give them his Holy Spirit, that, when they lie down at night and rise in the morning and miss their children, they may feel to commit themselves into the hands of the Lord, and realize that their separation from their little ones is not for ever, but that in a little time they will be restored to them. This applies to us all in the loss of our children. We lay them away in the grave, but they will come forth in the morning of the resurrection, and if we are faithful to the truth, we shall receive them and rejoice with them. 22

http://www.LDS.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?h ... 82620aRCRD

[_Tobin]

...

Don't be ridiculous. I'm not throwing anyone under the bus. They will be free to choose to follow God like anyone else. They will be resurrected, just like we all will. Your dim understanding of Mormon teachings notwithstanding.

[_beastie]

...

Don't be ridiculous. I'm not throwing anyone under the bus. They will be free to choose to follow God like anyone else. They will be resurrected, just like we all will. Your dim understanding of Mormon teachings notwithstanding.

If you are actually asserting that it is an LDS teaching that children who die prior to the age of 8 will have to earn the CK like everyone else, please prove it by citing actual LDS sources. And that does not include yahoos like you on the internet. I mean sources from the church itself, like the one I just cited.

After all, if my understanding of LDS teachings is so dim, this should be easy to do.

[_zeezrom]

Yes Tobin. We need to see if those spirits are willing to pay tithing, dammit!

No, zeezrom. They need to choose to follow God and all that entails. Just like we do. That is not a choice that can be made for them.

Oh few! I thought I was destined for hell. Luckily, I will be given a choice after I die when the post-mortal mishies stop by.

[_Darth J]

Perhaps the OP should have explained that it is alluding to the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, not the Church of Tobin.

This whole thing is a fictitious crock to start with. Just because you check out of this life early (say at the fetus stage), does not mean you go to the CK, are exalted, pass Go and collect $200, and all that non-sense. You will be tested and tried like everyone else in the next life. There are no automatic passes. The purpose of this stage in our existence is merely to obtain a mortal body. That's it. Becoming a Celestial Being is an entirely different matter.

Nope. God told the Prophet Joseph Smith the exact opposite of what you are saying.

D&C 137:10

And I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven.

[_zeezrom]

...That is not a choice that can be made for them.

I take it you are not pro-choice?

[_zeezrom]

Has Tobin read Moroni chapter 8?