LOL I don't speak for the LDS Church. If you are looking for a GA to comment on your threads here beastie, well hehe, good luck with that one.
Then why did you claim that people who disagreed with your statements regarding this issue had a "dim understanding" of LDS teachings and should quit pretending otherwise?
And, by the way, we've already quoted plenty of GAs on this thread. They disagree with you.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
LOL I don't speak for the LDS Church. If you are looking for a GA to comment on your threads here beastie, well hehe, good luck with that one.
Then why did you claim that people who disagreed with your statements regarding this issue had a "dim understanding" of LDS teachings and should quit pretending otherwise?
And, by the way, we've already quoted plenty of GAs on this thread. They disagree with you.
Because the view is incorrect and false doctrine. You may have learned it in the LDS Church but so what? It is still wrong. People have taught many false doctrines in the LDS Church in the past and currently. The doctrine that Blacks shouldn't be allowed to hold the priesthood is an example. GAs taught that racist doctrine for over a century. This is similar. There are no free rides in the gospel. We all must be tested and tried by the Lord and choose to follow the Lord before we can obtain exaltation.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote: Because the view is incorrect and false doctrine. You may have learned it in the LDS Church but so what? It is still wrong. People have taught many false doctrines in the LDS Church in the past and currently. The doctrine that Blacks shouldn't be allowed to hold the priesthood is an example. GAs taught that racist doctrine for over a century. This is similar. There are no free rides in the gospel. We all must be tested and tried by the Lord and choose to follow the Lord before we can obtain exaltation.
I know that you believe you have a superior understanding of the "right" LDS beliefs than even Joseph Smith. But that aside, the fact is that we don't have a "dim understanding" of LDS teachings. We have understood LDS teachings quite well. Your contention is that LDS teachings, in this area, are simply wrong. There's a big difference.
I really don't care at all if you alter LDS teachings to be more consistent with your own beliefs. But I do care if you then try to impose your personal interpretation onto the rest of us, and insist that conversations can only take place within the context of your own personal beliefs, when it was obvious I was discussing LDS teachings, as incorrect as you may perceive them to be.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
Tobin wrote: Because the view is incorrect and false doctrine. You may have learned it in the LDS Church but so what? It is still wrong. People have taught many false doctrines in the LDS Church in the past and currently. The doctrine that Blacks shouldn't be allowed to hold the priesthood is an example. GAs taught that racist doctrine for over a century. This is similar. There are no free rides in the gospel. We all must be tested and tried by the Lord and choose to follow the Lord before we can obtain exaltation.
I know that you believe you have a superior understanding of the "right" LDS beliefs than even Joseph Smith. But that aside, the fact is that we don't have a "dim understanding" of LDS teachings. We have understood LDS teachings quite well. Your contention is that LDS teachings, in this area, are simply wrong. There's a big difference.
I really don't care at all if you alter LDS teachings to be more consistent with your own beliefs. But I do care if you then try to impose your personal interpretation onto the rest of us, and insist that conversations can only take place within the context of your own personal beliefs, when it was obvious I was discussing LDS teachings, as incorrect as you may perceive them to be.
When LDS teachings are incorrect, is it not better to advocate the correct view?!? I know you are interested in the view that there will be a larger number of men in the CK than women. But if it is based on a false premise, I don't see anything useful about exploring what it implies. If you can find Mormons that will engage you in that view, then have fun with that. I, myself, find it more interesting and useful to correct these types of views with reasonable rational arguments based on citations from the scriptures and the prophets.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin is just doing what other NOM's do all the time - see Liz and her thread on polygamy - they pick and choose the doctrine that they can stomach and toss the rest out.
Church of Tobin, Church of Liz, (and I had my own Church, too)...it's all different and all the same. It makes religion easy.
H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level." ~ Ernest Becker "Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death." ~ Simone de Beauvoir
Tobin wrote:When LDS teachings are incorrect, is it not better to advocate the correct view?!? I know you are interested in the view that there will be a larger number of men in the CK than women. But if it is based on a false premise, I don't see anything useful about exploring what it implies. If you can find Mormons that will engage you in that view, then have fun with that. I, myself, find it more interesting and useful to correct these types of views with reasonable rational arguments based on citations from the scriptures and the prophets.
If you really feel that way, then you need to bow out of the conversation because you have been refuted by citations via scriptures and the prophets which consistently Trump yours.
Tobin wrote:When LDS teachings are incorrect, is it not better to advocate the correct view?!? I know you are interested in the view that there will be a larger number of men in the CK than women. But if it is based on a false premise, I don't see anything useful about exploring what it implies. If you can find Mormons that will engage you in that view, then have fun with that. I, myself, find it more interesting and useful to correct these types of views with reasonable rational arguments based on citations from the scriptures and the prophets.
If you really feel that way, then you need to bow out of the conversation because you have been refuted by citations via scriptures and the prophets which consistently Trump yours.
In your opinion, I disagree with it.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote:When LDS teachings are incorrect, is it not better to advocate the correct view?!? I know you are interested in the view that there will be a larger number of men in the CK than women. But if it is based on a false premise, I don't see anything useful about exploring what it implies. If you can find Mormons that will engage you in that view, then have fun with that. I, myself, find it more interesting and useful to correct these types of views with reasonable rational arguments based on citations from the scriptures and the prophets.
If you really feel that way, then you need to bow out of the conversation because you have been refuted by citations via scriptures and the prophets which consistently Trump yours.
Liz, prophets have extolled the virtues of polygamy, yet you refuse to buy in. How come it matters what prophets have said in this instance?
H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level." ~ Ernest Becker "Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death." ~ Simone de Beauvoir
liz3564 wrote: In your opinion, I disagree with it.
I would be curious to see you make an equal post over at the MDDBs and to read the responses you get. We all know that "opinions" in Mormonism mean nothing. Even the opinions of prophets get tossed out consistently by LDS apologists as not binding.
Here we have an opinion of an average lay member whose opinion directly contradicts canonized scripture and a fundamental belief and teaching of Mormonism.
Maybe there is some doctrinal ambiguity concerning fetus death. However, there is NO ambiguity concerning a birthed child and death before that child's "accountability" before God. None, zero, zilch, nada. Nothing!
This is what makes Mormonism a loony bin in my opinion. Its beliefs are nothing but a mishmash of confusion amongst members...well, not this example, because every member understands this doctrine plain as day (except Tobin).
SteelHead wrote:Well I also agree that the logical conclusion to the Church's premise that all children who die before the age of accountability is to kill all children before the age of 8. All of them on the planet. Herald in the 2nd coming as there will be no more reproduction.
To me that is the logical conclusion of the premise. Such as it guarantees the exaltation of the children, and what parent does not want that?
What this thread does is demonstrate the gaping holes in the logic of Mormon theology.
Well, Mormonism's central tenet is eternal families. What purpose does it serve to murder your child for their exaltation, that destroy's yours, your extended families and your eternal progression? Murder gives your eternal family a 0% chance. Life gives it something far greater than 0.
When you consider mortality rates of early 19th century frontier life, this doctrine/teaching is one of the most hopeful, compassionate and comforting teachings that arose out of Mormonism. I can see how it would give great comfort to families who lost children in childbirth or from early sickness and disease. Somthing we are wholly unnaccustomed to in this day and age