William Hamblin is a Pathetic Coward

[_moksha]

Will is becoming a hero as more apostates attack other apologists.

If not a hero, then at least admired for giving voice to things they would say if not constrained by thoughts of propriety and ethics. It is lamentable that some critics allow themselves a free kick at an opponent down on the field.

[_harmony]

Will is becoming a hero as more apostates attack other apologists.

If not a hero, then at least admired for giving voice to things they would say if not constrained by thoughts of propriety and ethics. It is lamentable that some critics allow themselves a free kick at an opponent down on the field.

Will is down? Since when?

[_Kevin Graham]

I recall an exchange between Greek Orthodox blogger Perry Robinson and Blake Ostler wherein Blake got upset at what Perry was writing about Mormonism and threatened to talk to his advisor and/or department chair in his PhD program (can't remember which) and have him disciplined. EDIT: It was the regents at his university that Blake threatened to talk to. See below.

Wow thanks for sharing that MsJack. I wonder how many other examples there are we could name. Come to think of it, I think what pisses Bill off so much about anonymous writers is that it makes it more difficult for him and his ilk to do what Ostler did. These folks, after all, consider themselves the modern Danites whose job is to call out potential apostates and have them marginalized and discredited by any means necessary.

Remember the whole Strengthening Members Committee thing? It is Bill and Dan who are actively engaged in trying to ruin other people's lives based on nothing more than their disagreements with Church claims. Dan's repeated lies about Robert Ritner is just another example. His role in having Michael Quinn marginalized is another example. The public lynching of Grant Palmer is yet another. And Bill has the audacity to sit there and say they are the ones who are interested in a free exchange of ideas and open debate? LOL!

[_MrStakhanovite]

Are you referring to the 4-chan meme "An Hero?"

No.

[_Kevin Graham]

The bitching exhibited on this board about Will and the celebration about his 'downfall' was perverse. And I am sure that some here where venting their spleen about him to others.

William never had a downfall because he was never up. Seriously, he is a nothing. A non entity. He's published nothing. He's just an internet blowhard whose own posting history will haunt him every day of his life, in the event he chooses to seek recognition as an author.

Actually it is now beginning to backfire. Will is becoming a hero as more apostates attack other apologists. The gag is up. We now know that this is a new tactic by the malcontents to attack the LDS church and its defenders. Let the games begin.

There is a very small cult following who think William is anything but a moron. That includes you, Droopy, and a few folks at Maxwell who have been recipients of his extensive lobbying efforts. Aside from that, no one else really knows or cares who he is. He has made just as many enemies on the LDS side as he has on the non-LDS side.

Remember, Maxwell Institute, the same institution that fired Will's mentor, rejected his bid to be published after LDS scholars had come across some of his online antics and despicable behavior. No apostate petitioned Maxwell about this. It was a simple matter of William's disgusting behavior getting so much fanfare that lurking LDS scholars caught wind of it and didn't want this him published because he was an embarrassment.

Remember all the hype surrounding his cipher theory two years ago? Last year I went to the MAD forum by invitation and refuted it rather easily. I showed how William lied and completely misrepresented the source documents and explained how he used slight of hand with an audience who simply didn't understand these documents well enough to catch the fact that Will was hoodwinking them. William insisted I be shut down and he got so pissed off he couldn't control himself so the moderators had to ban him from the thread. William then insisted people stop listening to me and convinced wade to stop discussing the issue with me. While i was posting refutations of his stupidity for more than 6 months, poor William stayed away from the forum. But the day I was banned for making Dan Peterson look stupid two months ago, suddenly William starts posting on the forum again. The guy is a coward just like Bill Hamblin. He couldn't defend a thesis to save his life.

The MAD folks saw what an idiot he was. I know of at least six MAD posters who PMed me and thanked me for proving what they already suspected to be true of William. The Moderators there aren't catering to William like you think. He will always be a non entity. They are just remaining faithful to their usual icons, Dan and Bill. And William is just getting a free ride on their coat tails because he is willing to humiliate himself for their benefit.

[_Philo Sofee]

The bitching exhibited on this board about Will and the celebration about his 'downfall' was perverse. And I am sure that some here where venting their spleen about him to others.

William never had a downfall because he was never up. Seriously, he is a nothing. A non entity. He's published nothing. He's just an internet blowhard whose own posting history will haunt him every day of his life, in the event he chooses to seek recognition as an author.

Actually it is now beginning to backfire. Will is becoming a hero as more apostates attack other apologists. The gag is up. We now know that this is a new tactic by the malcontents to attack the LDS church and its defenders. Let the games begin.

There is a very small cult following who think William is anything but a moron. That includes you, Droopy, and a few folks at Maxwell who have been recipients of his extensive lobbying efforts. Aside from that, no one else really knows or cares who he is. He has made just as many enemies on the LDS side as he has on the non-LDS side.

Remember, Maxwell Institute, the same institution that fired Will's mentor, rejected his bid to be published after LDS scholars had come across some of his online antics and despicable behavior. No apostate petitioned Maxwell about this. It was a simple matter of William's disgusting behavior getting so much fanfare that lurking LDS scholars caught wind of it and didn't want this him published because he was an embarrassment.

Remember all the hype surrounding his cipher theory two years ago? Last year I went to the MAD forum by invitation and refuted it rather easily. I showed how William lied and completely misrepresented the source documents and explained how he used slight of hand with an audience who simply didn't understand these documents well enough to catch the fact that Will was hoodwinking them. William insisted I be shut down and he got so pissed off he couldn't control himself so the moderators had to ban him from the thread. William then insisted people stop listening to me and convinced wade to stop discussing the issue with me. While i was posting refutations of his stupidity for more than 6 months, poor William stayed away from the forum. But the day I was banned for making Dan Peterson look stupid two months ago, suddenly William starts posting on the forum again. The guy is a coward just like Bill Hamblin. He couldn't defend a thesis to save his life.

The MAD folks saw what an idiot he was. I know of at least six MAD posters who PMed me and thanked me for proving what they already suspected to be true of William. The Moderators there aren't catering to William like you think. He will always be a non entity. They are just remaining faithful to their usual icons, Dan and Bill. And William is just getting a free ride on their coat tails because he is willing to humiliate himself for their benefit.

You appear to me to have a habit of refuting most anything. You must read a lot. It's very interesting to see two sides of the story.

[_Kevin Graham]

Well I was the guy who actually educated Will Schryver on the whole KEP matter back in May of 2006 on the FAIR boards (now MAD). Of course he came at me by lying about it, having no clue what the KEP were. He clearly thought the KEP referred to the Egyptian papyri. This was back when no one had viewed the KEP because the Church was keeping them under tight control. We were even told that John Gee hadn't acquired access to them.

So when I explained to the forum how this was a major issue for me, William jumped in an assured me that the KEP represent no challenge to apologists whatsoever, because he has studied them as extensively as anyone ever had, and found no cause for alarm.

This was a lie of course, and he knew it. When I called him out on it, he went silent for about a month and then came back at me after reading Nibley's apologetic crap on the subject. He even started emailing me asking me basic questions about these documents that anyone familiar with them should have already known (i.e. were these writings in the hands of anyone who ever worked as a scribe for Joseph Smith?). At one point he emailed me to tell me that if he were a non-LDS looking at the evidence, he didn't see how he could conclude anything other than Joseph Smith was a fraud, but because he already began with a testimony, he can't see it that way. When I shared this email with the forums, he said I was lying about the email, claiming he never wrote it. So I know first hand, perhaps more than anyone, how this guy is willing to flat out lie to people.

This guy has lied about so many things on this issue it is amazing he is still trying to draw attention to himself. If I were him I'd go in hiding for about a decade.

[_Philo Sofee]

Well I was the guy who actually educated Will Schryver on the whole KEP matter back in May of 2006 on the FAIR boards (now MAD). Of course he came at me by lying about it, having no clue what the KEP were. He clearly thought the KEP referred to the Egyptian papyri. This was back when no one had viewed the KEP because the Church was keeping them under tight control. We were even told that John Gee hadn't acquired access to them.

So when I explained to the forum how this was a major issue for me, William jumped in an assured me that the KEP represent no challenge to apologists whatsoever, because he has studied them as extensively as anyone ever had, and found no cause for alarm.

This was a lie of course, and he knew it. When I called him out on it, he went silent for about a month and then came back at me after reading Nibley's apologetic crap on the subject. He even started emailing me asking me basic questions about these documents that anyone familiar with them should have already known (i.e. were these writings in the hands of anyone who ever worked as a scribe for Joseph Smith?). At one point he emailed me to tell me that if he were a non-LDS looking at the evidence, he didn't see how he could conclude anything other than Joseph Smith was a fraud, but because he already began with a testimony, he can't see it that way. When I shared this email with the forums, he said I was lying about the email, claiming he never wrote it. So I know first hand, perhaps more than anyone, how this guy is willing to flat out lie to people.

This guy has lied about so many things on this issue it is amazing he is still trying to draw attention to himself. If I were him I'd go in hiding for about a decade.

Did you keep all that? It might make for a fascinating read of a book.

[_Doctor Scratch]

So, to see him come up with this tripe about unsubstantiated letters of complaint against him, which, by the way, were entirely unsuccessful, if they ever existed at all, in order to posit this fantastical notion of an orchestrated campaign by the dark forces of apostasy is silly.

Who was it who contacted Tom Murphy's boss at his college? Tried to get him fired? or was it to make sure he didn't get his degree?

That was John Tvedtnes. A while back, I made a post saying that the Mopologists quite literally would like to ruin critics' lives, and my remark was laughed off by, If I recall correctly, John Stuart Mill (whatever happened to that guy, by the way?), and I had to re-post the bit about Tvedtnes. The bit about Ostler here is just yet another example of these guys erupting with vindictive rage. We have many other examples, too: Dan Peterson et al. working to destroy Mike Quinn's reputation; Gee and DCP trying to smear Robert Ritner; DCP meddling in Eric's family affairs. Midgley, Smith, & Co.'s hideous attacks on John Dehlin. The allegations about Midgley blowing up and screaming things about the death on Dehlin's mission sums up the emotions that underlie all of this stuff. We have someone emailing Mr. Stak's professors at his school. Someone from MDD was sending malicious emails to Runtu's wife, and so on. I know that two of the Maxwell Institute guys threatened to contact yet another of our board participant's work, though I'm not going to say what I know for privacy reasons.

In any event, the thing with Ostler is so disquieting because he has always seemed like a scholarly, even-keeled guy. It makes you wonder if the other "reasonable" Mopologists are like this, too. Would Kevin Barney do something like this, for example? The fact that he sits on the FAIR board with people like Professor P. and Allen Wyatt raises major questions for me. And what about somebody like Kevin Christenson? Is this the kind of guy who would go out of his way in an attempt to ruin your life? You can be pretty certain that the main reason that Bill Hamblin hates anonymity is because it takes away his and the Skinny-L crew's ability to go after people's lives.

I hope that Ostler apologized to Perry. It may be that he was banned before he had the opportunity to clear the air. If not, then he's every bit as low and underhanded as these other Mopologists.

[_Kevin Graham]

Did you keep all that? It might make for a fascinating read of a book.

Yep, I have it all documented. I saved the HTML pages from all those exchanges at the FAIR boards, though some of them may still be accessible in their archives. I know a lot of it has been deleted already.

Oh, and then there was the hilarious attempt by Schryver to pull one over on Dan Vogel. At the time Schryver was posting as "Provis" and no one had any idea who William Schryver was. But when he emailed me as Provis he signed his email with his in real life identity, phone number, address, etc. So a week later I get an email from Brent Metcalfe asking me if I had any idea who William Schryver is, and I told him it was the guy posting as "Provis." He then shared with me an email exchange that had been going on between Dan Vogel and Schryver, who contacted Vogel out of the blue wanting to interview him for a documentary film on apostates.

The creepiness about it all was that Schryver was emailing Vogel with cordial requests, being extremely friendly, presenting himself as if he were someone doubt the Church as well, while simultaneously attacking him in the most vicious manner as "Provis" on the forums. When Vogel called him out for being the same guy, William of course acted like he had no idea what he was talking about. Minutes later I get an email from Schryver asking me to keep his in real life identity on the down low, but it was too late. And so Provis became "William Schryver" on the forums after the cat was let out of the bag.