Thousands flee Canada to US for health care.

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_krose
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Re: Thousands flee Canada to US for health care.

Post by _krose »

EAllusion wrote:Think tanks are normally labeled partisan or nonpartisan based on whether the are affiliated with a particular political group. It's accurate to label Brookings nonpartisan in this context. Heritage can be called partisan because it is so clearly in the bag for the Republican party. But not all think tanks with an point of view line up with parties so neatly. CATO, also conservative in a sense, isn't aligned with any particular party in so neat a way.

You don't consider Libertarians to be a political group?
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_EAllusion
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Re: Thousands flee Canada to US for health care.

Post by _EAllusion »

krose wrote:You don't consider Libertarians to be a political group?
No more so than "liberals" or "conservatives." It's a diverse body of people that isn't synonymous with a party affiliation. CATO is to libertarians what Brookings is to liberals. Both can and do publish material that is unfriendly to the LP and DP respectively.
_krose
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Re: Thousands flee Canada to US for health care.

Post by _krose »

EAllusion wrote:
krose wrote:You don't consider Libertarians to be a political group?
No more so than "liberals" or "conservatives." It's a diverse body of people that isn't synonymous with a party affiliation. CATO is to libertarians what Brookings is to liberals. Both can and do publish material that is unfriendly to the LP and DP respectively.

Yeah, okay. I usually just think of them as having a liberal, conservative or libertarian bias, rather than being associated with any official party.
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_moksha
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Re: Thousands flee Canada to US for health care.

Post by _moksha »

Do any of these think tanks have data on the number of uninsured Americans who have thought about receiving needed care in Canada?
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_Kevin Graham
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Re: Thousands flee Canada to US for health care.

Post by _Kevin Graham »

moksha wrote:Do any of these think tanks have data on the number of uninsured Americans who have thought about receiving needed care in Canada?


Americans Filching Free Health Care in Canada

Lacking a national health care system of their own, thousands of Americans are tapping into Canada's -- illegally.

"It's not an epidemic in any one person's practice," said Keith MacLeod, an obstetrician in Windsor, Ontario, across from Detroit, "but I would estimate that from 12 to 20 of my patients at any one time are ineligible Americans. And I'm just one of 520 doctors in Windsor, 23,000 in Ontario."

Dr. MacLeod, former president of the Essex County Medical Society, delivers about 400 babies a year.

A report prepared for Ontario's Health Minister indicated that from August 1992 to February 1993, 60,000 medical claims had been made on behalf of patients who held American drivers' licenses. The total number of improper claims in Ontario was estimated at 600,000.

Only legal residents qualify for free medical care in Canada, using plastic health cards for identification. Others are supposed to pay for medical services they may require, but many are submitting counterfeit, borrowed or fradulently obtained cards....

"We've lost 5,000 hospital beds in the last two years," he said. "There are ever-increasing waiting lists for cancer treatment. There is a health care crisis in Ontario, and the public has very little patience for Americans or others not entitled to use our health system clogging up our services."
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Re: Thousands flee Canada to US for health care.

Post by _Kevin Graham »

An American's Experience with Canadian Health Care

Information provided by Global Health Media - Published: 2010-09-07

Have you seen the ad of the Canadian woman who supposedly had to go to Minnesota to get "life saving brain surgery?" A Canadian news reporter did a superior job of fact checking than U.S. journalists, and discovered that the woman had a non-threatening cyst, not cancer.


She was probably being appropriately managed in Canada's health care system. Yes, there are some wait times, but not for life-threatening conditions.

The trumped-up message in the deceptive ad is just one more log thrown on the bonfire of distortions and fear-mongering in this summer's Congressional health care stand-off. ("You don't want government bureaucrats telling your doctor what to do!?") The talking points issued by the GOP bury important issues we should be discussing, but never get around to in the polarized political climate.

The entire society benefits when we have universal coverage, according to Kaiser Permanente CEO George Halvorson. This complex idea requires some explaining and doesn't fit in a sound-byte. For example, primary care service that costs about $18,000 per year for a diabetic can prevent complications from progressing to a leg amputation totaling over $180,000 in costly surgery, follow-up care, rehabilitation and long-term disability.

Too many members of Congress persist in supporting the agenda of health insurance companies over the dire health needs of 60 to 90 million Americans (the uninsured and the under insured). We have the costliest system in the world ($2.4 trillion) and yet we are ranked 34th in life expectancy.

But those kinds of numbers generally make people numb. That's why the ad with the woman crying about her need for brain surgery is so effective. We need to put a human face on health care reform. So okay, let's do that, but instead of a bogus story, I would like to offer a true account of what happened to me in Canada.

I moved my family from California to Vancouver, BC, in 2003 because of an offer with a new health radio venture. About five weeks after we arrived, my husband at the time, my 23 year-old son, and I received in the mail our very own Medical Service Plan cards from the provincial government. We had to pay a monthly fee of $50 each for health care that covered what I consider a basic package—unlimited clinic visits, emergency care, preventive care such as immunizations and mammograms, and all hospitalizations. I was the only one with a job, and hadn't yet paid any Canadian taxes.

I thought there had to be a hitch, it was too good to be true. After all, I had heard about all the problems with the long waits and substandard care and disgruntled doctors and nurses who wished they could hightail it over the border…right? So I decided that I would test the system.

I needed an annual gynecological exam and Pap smear but my own doctor 's staff in the U.S. told me in July that the next appointment I could get was in seven months. It was the same story whenever I called so I missed a year or two. In Canada, I called one of the "royal" medical clinics (which appear about every 10 kilometers) and braced myself for disappointment, "How long before I can get an appointment for a Pap?"

"No appointment necessary," said the receptionist. I was stunned to not get a voice mail recording. "Just come in today before 8 pm"

"Well, okay, but how long do I wait?"

"No more than a few minutes – we're not busy today," she insisted.

"But how long before I get results?" There had to be a problem somewhere.

"We'll phone you in a week," she persisted in being helpful.

Still convinced that Canadians just don't know how bad they have it, we figured that this was just a fluke. Or else it was customary for uncomplicated health care services, but when people had serious health challenges, we'd encounter the ugly truth.

A week later my husband wondered if he could get a doctor to evaluate his extremely sore back, an injury he sustained back in the States. He gave up jumping through the hoops set up by his insurance company so he let the problem go and suffered with chronic back pain.

Let's test the Canadian "substandard" health care system once more, we agreed. He called a local royal clinic and asked for an appointment. "Just come in—no appointment necessary, but if you really want one, we'll give you one" This time, I think they recognized us as same American refugees who called a week ago.

The doctor evaluated his back pain, made an appointment right away with a neurologist he knew, and scheduled my husband for an MRI (yes, one of those expensive high-tech diagnostic exams that you aren't supposed to be able to get in Canada without bribing officials). The doctor suggested some follow-up with the physiotherapist in the office. In fact, he called him into his office to evaluate my husband right there. (We call that integrative medicine in the US, and you usually have to pay $400 for an initial appointment; most don't accept insurance or Medicare.)

My husband was elated with the relief he got from the physiotherapy and massage. He was sure he'd have to wait a half-year for the MRI and neurologist, but his entire wait was 10 days. He was treated, the pain resolved, and we never saw a bill.

In fact, both of us laughed about having the same experience: see the doctor, put your clothes back on, walk up to the front desk before leaving, and ask, "What are the damages?"

"Pardon me?" says the polite staff.

"What's the co-pay?" we would ask. They had no idea what that word meant.

"No, you don't owe anything. There is no charge. It's all taken care of. There is no bill" The royal clinic personnel had to express this staggering fact in several different ways for it to sink in.

Now, these are just our personal accounts, and for every positive story, there is no doubt a not-so-positive one on both sides of the border. That's the problem with anecdotal tales. But epidemiological data do not lie. What the Canadians and Swedes and Japanese and British and every other industrialized nation have learned is that when you offer universal coverage, you advance the health of the every resident, and life expectancy and health outcomes improve. Canadians spend less per capita than we do and enjoy longer lifespans, better management of chronic disease, and healthier lives.

Universal coverage results in improved health for every body, including the privileged segment that manages to maintain private insurance.

Next time you see a political announcement trying to scare you that health care reform would result in a loss of "choice" or "quality" or "have bureaucrats determining your medical care," see it for what it is: a desperate plea by those who benefit most from the status quo. The profits of the private insurers are enormous. Watch the statements made by Wendell Potter, a former CIGNA executive, as he is interviewed by Bill Moyers.

www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html ) and support a public health insurance option.

Or try moving to Canada if it doesn't pass.

Reference: Dr. Meg Jordan, PhD, RN, is a medical anthropologist and behavioral health specialist, and a journalist in both Canada and the US. She is editor of American Fitness Magazine and host of "Healthy Living" newscast on Global TV in Canada.

Meg Jordan, PhD., RN
Global Health Media
Sausalito, CA
415-785-7987


Citation: Disabled World News (2010-09-07) - Too many members of Congress persist in supporting the agenda of health insurance companies over the dire health needs of 60 to 90 million Americans: http://www.disabled-world.com/medical/h ... z20fdedUWE
_grindael
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Re: Thousands flee Canada to US for health care.

Post by _grindael »

If you want to believe that we have a better system for delivering healthcare in this country, watch this movie:

http://sickothemovie.com/
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_grindael
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Re: Thousands flee Canada to US for health care.

Post by _grindael »

Moore actually went to Canada to investigate the claims made against Canadian Healthcare.
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
_Drifting
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Re: Thousands flee Canada to US for health care.

Post by _Drifting »

Why did bcspace start a thread and then run away?
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_MCB
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Re: Thousands flee Canada to US for health care.

Post by _MCB »

Drifting wrote:Why did bcspace start a thread and then run away?

Probably because the subject is a minefield against his POV. :lol: Of course, the answer is so obvious I don't need to post it, except for the benefit of more obtuse members of the board.

ETA unless he is now working as devil's advocate.
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